FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[Ludicrous Speed]

Flex*wife - Last week, I was called a union stomper. This week, its thugly. Hmmm. You know if I wanted this much abuse and name calling, I'd call up my ex girl-friend - she had that stuff down pat.

At the Department of Labor website, the union's income - along with every other union - is made public. When you research the numbers, you'll see the IBT is not getting rich off us.

Tossing around vague insults like thugly or incompetent or sucks - my response, is to ask, "How?" Not talking about some of the anonymous posts here. I'm talking specifics: What did the IBT or the 1108 do that was thugly?

Look, I applaud that you're thinking about unions and that you want a union at FlexJet, but you've got this misplaced image of who we are. Maybe 90% of the union work is done by the pilots. The other 10% is done by the lawyers. Not some suit from Jersey or Detroit or Washington. Us. No one here's denying the history of unions in the U.S., but I can point to politicians & judges & executives & religious clerics that have had more violence and corruption. If you ever talk with the leaders of the 1108, you'll see they're the complete opposite of a union crony. Or a union thug. They're pilots, working at what amounts to a second job for the union.

By the way, it is a second job and it's not an easy one. Just like you bang your head on the wall because of your teenagers (or maybe I'm the only one who does that), so too do we wish some things could immediately change. But that's not reality, that's not the way it works.

The easy way is to let someone else handle all these issues and I guarantee Uncle will step up and volunteer his services. In some way, shape, or form, he'll say: "Look. You don't need this hassle. Leave the worry to us. It's easier. You just concentrate on flying. You don't need the headache of negotiating a contract - we already did that for you. And we'll protect you. Trust me. I even wrote a book about it."

But the hard work - having a say about your job and your life? It's all worth it.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Why doesn't 1108 petition the NMB, say tomorrow, and let's see what happens? We all know that if we were ruled to be a single carrier that the 1108 would be gone in a heartbeat. Whether you're pro or anti union, you've got to know that that would be the case.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Very thoughtful post. THE PILOTS ARE THE UNION WITH THE BACKING AND RESOURCES OF THE NATIONAL. The bottom line is this. Kenn is hoping you will help build his empire by attacking whats left of the playing field with an unfair advantage, i.e. our low wages, and your soon to be lower wages and decreased working conditions and qol on the road. So lets say netjets ceo negotiates a lower pay scale for those pilots to remain competitive in the market place. Where does it end? Lets all take a pragmatic approach to this and say wait a minute, we fly the richest people in the world around......safely, we fly three times as much as a private corporate pilot, we are away from our families for 190 days a year, we are not being offered any retirement for our dedication and sacrifices, and we are pushed to the limits of our physical capabilities. I can promise you in less than a year from now kenny gonna be gunning to lower your salaries. When he has you between a rock and a hard place and politely says through them glossy white veneers, it's my way or the highway.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Why doesn't 1108 petition the NMB, say tomorrow, and let's see what happens? We all know that if we were ruled to be a single carrier that the 1108 would be gone in a heartbeat. Whether you're pro or anti union, you've got to know that that would be the case.

I bet it would be closer than you think

 

[V1 Rotate]

I bet it would be closer than you think

Perhaps. Admittedly, my comment was based on my own pulse of what I hear from our guys and the Options guys I run across. But I also have a feeling that if 1108 thought for a minute that the tide was in their favor that they'd be out front encouraging their members to support them in their efforts for a single system. Just my thoughts. Not looking for a fight.

 

[FR8DOG777]

I know you were not looking to pick a fight. I say we call the vote tomorrow, cuz if the unions out it will accelerate my retirement plans. Uncle has sucked enough life out of me already. Yes there was a time our leadership was cocky and thought they knew everything, after a few slices of humble pie they have simmered down a bit.

 

[BlueNose]

I know you were not looking to pick a fight. I say we call the vote tomorrow, cuz if the unions out it will accelerate my retirement plans. Uncle has sucked enough life out of me already. Yes there was a time our leadership was cocky and thought they knew everything, after a few slices of humble pie they have simmered down a bit.

Yep, they've been 'Ricci rolled' a few times now.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I know you were not looking to pick a fight. I say we call the vote tomorrow, cuz if the unions out it will accelerate my retirement plans. Uncle has sucked enough life out of me already. Yes there was a time our leadership was cocky and thought they knew everything, after a few slices of humble pie they have simmered down a bit.

The part I struggle with is trying to understand why on Earth would KR come in and turn our world upside down? And the reason I say that is because for the most part our morale is decent, with the exception of the long upgrades for our FO's. Flexjet attracted him because we're a money making machine. If anything, why wouldn't he want to bring Options up to Flexjet levels instead of bringing us down? We all held our breath when our pay and benefits were announced and again last week when the fleet plans were announced. So far he hasn't bent us over. Not saying he won't, but so far so good. If anything, you guys should be demanding that 1108 get the heck out of your way and negotiate in good faith with KR for what we have. And if you're still not satisfied, then bring in another union. What do you have to lose? I just tend to believe that if it were me and I had been beaten down for years like you guys that I think I'd try something different. I'm neither 100% pro nor anti-union. I believe that the company's culture dictates that need.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Perhaps. Admittedly, my comment was based on my own pulse of what I hear from our guys and the Options guys I run across. But I also have a feeling that if 1108 thought for a minute that the tide was in their favor that they'd be out front encouraging their members to support them in their efforts for a single system. Just my thoughts. Not looking for a fight.

Don't trust your pulse. Do the math. A combined pilot group vote ( with their furloughees voting) requires pretty close to 401 votes ( 50% +1) to decide the issue. Suppose that 25% of the Flex guys voted in favor of having a union. That leaves you with about 252 Flex pilots against. You now need 150 ish votes from their side to decertify. That's 31% of their entire group. Their union was voted in at close to an 80% clip, so now you need an additional 11% of their pilots to vote against their union versus the original vote.

Certainly it's possible, maybe even probable, that a union vote would be 65/35 on their side. But it sure as heck isn't a slam dunk, and it becomes far less certain for Flex guys seeking decertification if more than 1/4 of our group votes for a union. I personally think that that number would be closer to 1/3 if the votes were taken tomorrow based on what I've seen on th road. All that to say that I don't think either group, pro or against, is in any real hurry to vote because it's not a sure thing.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

V1 Rotate - If anything, you guys should be demanding that 1108 get the heck out of your way and negotiate in good faith with KR for what we have. And if you're still not satisfied, then bring in another union.

If the 1108 was “out of the way”, exactly what legal means would we have for negotiating with Uncle? What legal responsibility would he have to negotiate – in good faith - with us?

Bring in another union? What “other” union? Even if there was another national, it took 4 years of negotiating – through the Great Recession – just to get a TA. And that doesn’t include the years spent prior to voting in the union.

Finally, if the “what we have” refers to FlexJet’s pay & work rules, you don’t really “have” anything. You’re an at-will employee. Everything is subject to change at a moment’s notice & at management’s sole discretion.

 

[FR8DOG777]

We have every intention of fighting ricci to be brought up to your level, with the protections of a union contract behind us. It was apparent they had no intentions of bringing us up to your level, because they could have reopened negotiations instead of extending the last year of the contract. We will have to fight uncle tooth and nail for a 10 cent raise. He does not want us to have the contract protections which is why he is fighting so hard to abolish our union. No one here wants you to be pulled down to the cesspool were living in. Ask yourself this, what are your options when Ricci starts micromanaging you guys, comes looking to lower your salaries, and starts piling on all these extra sentient and spinnaker trips killing your qol on the road? We live it every day for 1/2 the pay.

 

[hammer2]

After the meeting I came away with the sense Ricci's loyalty lays with the Option's pilots. I'm starting to think the union is the least of our concerns.

 

[jetwash]

After the meeting I came away with the sense Ricci's loyalty lays with the Option's pilots. I'm starting to think the union is the least of our concerns.

Its not all the options pilots.

It is just to his handful of select pilots. That is why the pilots who are not the "select few" seek protection in the form of a CBA.

 

[hammer2]

Its not all the options pilots.

It is just to his handful of select pilots. That is why the pilots who are not the "select few" seek protection in the form of a CBA.

Maybe not the pilots so much as loyalty to Option's as a whole. With Options getting our older airplanes and the implementing of our operational logistics, we're left with nothing more than estimated projections of growth and a smaller fleet. It feels like we're being sucked dry...in fact, the first thing I thought of when I saw the slide show was that he's setting us up to suffer a similar fate that citation air suffered.

I could be wrong and hope I am. There's so little information being given and so many questions that its hard make an educated guess of what's up right now. But I'll say it again, the union is the least of our worries right now. Union or not it won't make a damn bit of difference, Ricci's going to do what he's gonna do.

 

[Fresh Air]

I could be wrong and hope I am.

I hope you are too, friend. You're right, there's no way of knowing for sure what Kenn and DAC might do.