FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[jetwash]

No matter what your opinions are on KR, unions etc... Would the prudent thing to do is vote for decertification so the currently furloughed (180 plus) FO guys don't factor into seats, assignments, integration etc... I know that's a rather selfish and crappy attitude but I'm worried about my family, not yours...

If the situation warrants then a new union could be decided on (yes I know it takes time etc...) in the future...

You seem to be under the impression that senority will still matter if there is no union. It will not matter how long you were at Flex or Fo, what will matter is how close you are to the middle managers.

Aircraft seats, schedules, vacations will first be given to the " good old boys" at the company. Unless you are a friend of TM, BR, Jk, JS you will get what is left over vacations and time off during the holidays will be divided by L$. If you don't like it you can complain to TM,Br,JK,JS and see how that goes.

. I am sure that there is nothing in that one page agreement that states how bidding will be done and how complaints will be handled.

As for later voting in a union, it would take a minimum of 1 year to go through all the procedureres then another 4 years to negotiate a first contract. Plus who would help with the start up funds if you already votedout one union that was already on property. If 6 months after voting the union out your spouses pay was cut or his work schedule increased without any extra pay. Would you be happy to wait 5 years to be in a position to try to get it back.

 

[Praetorian]

My opinion doesn't really matter but I'm gonna say something that no one is gonna like but has to be considered (from the flex side...)

No matter what your opinions are on KR, unions etc... Would the prudent thing to do is vote for decertification so the currently furloughed (180 plus) FO guys don't factor into seats, assignments, integration etc... I know that's a rather selfish and crappy attitude but I'm worried about my family, not yours...

If the situation warrants then a new union could be decided on (yes I know it takes time etc...) in the future...

FYI, I am fairly pro union - and the half truths and smoke and mirror show thus far in 2014 have put me more comfortably in that camp - but in the end, have we all to do what's best for us personally bad for where one falls on the seniority list the best option might be no union...

It's like someone said to my husband - it's a great time to be an investor in KR, a horrible time to be his employee... Lots of unknowns for the latter amongst a group of people not known to be free spirits (nor would you want them to be)

Decertification is the worst possible outcome. The only way to protect ourselves from Ricci, and, more importantly, from the realities of the market place which views pilots as nothing more than overpaid taxi drivers, is to band together across the two companies and use our collective bargaining power to protect what we have and improve upon it. For people who are actually pro-union, that is about as basic as it gets. Decertification and putting individual self interests ahead of all other considerations, including the well being of co-workers and our profession, it's the logic of those who have destroyed the pilot profession.

 

[doh]

See subsection 9.204 of the NMB?s Representation Manual
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/representation-manual.pdf

Furloughed employees are eligible to vote in the craft or class in which they last worked if they retain an employee-employer relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another craft or class are ineligible to vote in the craft or class from which the employees are furloughed.

So if you are flying somewhere else, you don't have a right to vote?

 

[Praetorian]

Furloughed employees are eligible to vote in the craft or class in which they last worked if they retain an employee-employer relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another craft or class are ineligible to vote in the craft or class from which the employees are furloughed.

So if you are flying somewhere else, you don't have a right to vote?

No they get to vote. The NMB has historically been very generous on this. They don't want to disenfranchise anyone.

 

[Fresh Air]

The furloughed Flight Options pilots DID vote on our CBA, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[dime line]

My opinion doesn't really matter but I'm gonna say something that no one is gonna like but has to be considered (from the flex side...)

No matter what your opinions are on KR, unions etc... Would the prudent thing to do is vote for decertification so the currently furloughed (180 plus) FO guys don't factor into seats, assignments, integration etc... I know that's a rather selfish and crappy attitude but I'm worried about my family, not yours...

If the situation warrants then a new union could be decided on (yes I know it takes time etc...) in the future...

FYI, I am fairly pro union - and the half truths and smoke and mirror show thus far in 2014 have put me more comfortably in that camp - but in the end, have we all to do what's best for us personally bad for where one falls on the seniority list the best option might be no union...

It's like someone said to my husband - it's a great time to be an investor in KR, a horrible time to be his employee... Lots of unknowns for the latter amongst a group of people not known to be free spirits (nor would you want them to be)

Wow talk about F...your buddy!! and F... the pilot next to you

 

[FR8DOG777]

Decertification is the worst possible outcome. The only way to protect ourselves from Ricci, and, more importantly, from the realities of the market place which views pilots as nothing more than overpaid taxi drivers, is to band together across the two companies and use our collective bargaining power to protect what we have and improve upon it. For people who are actually pro-union, that is about as basic as it gets. Decertification and putting individual self interests ahead of all other considerations, including the well being of co-workers and our profession, it's the logic of those who have destroyed the pilot profession.

+1, Never been a been union fan until I met Ricci. Working for Ricci without a CBA is more dangerous than unprotected sex. Flex wifey is worried about herself and all those vacation days that were lost.

 

[hammer2]

Wow talk about F...your buddy!! and F... the pilot next to you

Would you give up your seat and pay for him? We're caught between a rock and a hard spot and a union is not the answer.

 

[ProFracPilot]

We're caught between a rock and a hard spot and a union is not the answer.

Then what, in your opinion, IS the answer?

 

[Fresh Air]

For the record:

I would not support, nor vote for, any solution to this integration issue that would result in any pay or benefit cut for you Flex crews. The objective should be a solution which results in the integrated group achieving the best of both worlds: Flex crews getting the protection from abuse that a CBA offers, and the Options crews pay and benefits being increased to the level that the Flex crews enjoy. There are contract tools, such as LOA's and fences that can be used to make this a reality.

We can expect DAC management to fight this tooth and nail, because their goal as a business will be maximum cost savings and control. They will push hard for no contract, which gives them license to change everything else with an email.

 

[BE40Driver]

The 1108 forced my paycut when I was pushed out of the Hawker! Forced me to bid lines I don't want twice a year to work extra days during seam months. Force my vacation when I don't want it. There is NO protection from the union thugs! Be careful what you ask for!!

 

[Rupert.]

The 1108 forced my paycut when I was pushed out of the Hawker! Forced me to bid lines I don't want twice a year to work extra days during seam months. Force my vacation when I don't want it. There is NO protection from the union thugs! Be careful what you ask for!!

Spot on!

Hey Flex guys, if this truckers union is as great as they claim it to be, why did the largest fractional company out there drop them?

 

[Fresh Air]

The 1108 forced my paycut when I was pushed out of the Hawker! Forced me to bid lines I don't want twice a year to work extra days during seam months. Force my vacation when I don't want it. There is NO protection from the union thugs! Be careful what you ask for!!

All been gone over many times before. The 1108 gave mgt 3 different options to save your Hawker pay when your fleet was retired, but mgt dismissed them as being too expensive. As for the bid cycle, many of us like bidding twice a year, sorry you don't. As for the seam days and forced vacation, management managed to find loopholes in the CBA in order to screw the pilots. It's a first contract, and there are a few of those loopholes that will have to be fixed next year at the bargaining table.

Your inclination to hate the union is causing you to assign blame to the 1108, who are not thugs, but your fellow pilots, who only want the best for the whole pilot group, instead of FO management, who are the ones using every possible trick and loophole to screw you and the rest of us.

BTW, love the avatar, Grandpa Simpson!

 

[Fresh Air]

Spot on!

Hey Flex guys, if this truckers union is as great as they claim it to be, why did the largest fractional company out there drop them?

Hi Phil! It's a shame that nobody posts on your lame UPFO website so you have to come here and try to spread your scorching herpes.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Didn't the company take the position of "trust us" on the seam period?

 

[Club ORD FO]

Can somebody lay out a road map of how things are going to provide and what options flex pilots will have? Some people think that there will be a vote on keeping the groups separate, some think that will will get to vote on keeping the union or note. Is a merger a sure thing or can it only happen when the NMB gets involved? I'm not to sure on any of this. What are some possible outcomes? We obviously want to keep our pay, schedules, and benefits. I think if we had the choice, most of us would prefer to stay separate lists. Is that not at all ann option through an LOA? Is it in everyones best interest if we just stay in our own sandbox?

Lets say a merger is on the horizon, if the choices are vote yes to union and lose pay/benefits/schedules, then its going to be a really hard sell.

I dunno. This sounds like a mess and we at flex are very confused about the process, timeline, and possible outcomes.

 

[warlord19]

Club Ord FO et al
I don’t find our situation that confusing. Flexjet was bought by DAC in order to remain competitive in the marketplace. Our now brother company FLOPS, having unionized in the past for whatever reasons, now demands that we join their ranks in order to defend ourselves from the evil and diabolical KR, the destroyer of all things good and just. I find their posts a little overboard ie bullsh**t(having talked to quite a few of their pilots on the road), and will take a wait and see position. I can live with the changes made so far, but if our work rules and benefits start going south, will hold my nose and vote in the IBT (or, hopefully, an alternative). The union goons postings on this board on how evil everything is at FLOPS tells me as much about them as about FLOPS.
Cheers,
WL19

 

[BE40Driver]

Fresh air, You say WE are the 1108 and I have flown with and next to the Horse Head. I have seen them work harder at trying NOT to work than doing there job! I had one tell me " He works for the 1108 and NOT Flightoptions". A real Bone Head! It is a breath of FRESH AIR wen I don't have to fly with the Horse Rear. BTW, the Horse Heads on the ID Badges are getting less and less seen on the road.

 

[chainring]

Think about it guys. Why do you think Kenn wants the Union gone. Because then he can do whatever he wants. There's your answer. Bombardier is gone.

You may not have needed a Union then but assure me you need it here. And if you vote it away it only took us 5 years to get our first contract. So vote it away and we won't have protection here until probably 2019.

I wish the Flex pilots could see past the pay issue. There is so much more to a CBA. Right now you guys are sitting at a cushy plane to pilot ratio. That will change. You haven't been exposed to the 10/24 warning world yet. That will change. How many times to Options guys here "realistically scheduled". And without a contract you can't say no to anything. At Will employment.

I got into a huge argument with 3 of these middle managers recently about exceeding the demonstrated crosswind component of the plane. They told me they were giving me approval to exceed the limitation. When I said no it got bumped to 3 different managers each one getting more forceful. It wasn't until when I said okay let's get a Steward involved that for some reason they just dropped it.

This middle management team here at Options are some real scumbags. They will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat. Reinhold, Kalic, Ridgeway, Anguish, Montie, Scott, Salata. And if you vote away the protection of the Union imagine the fun of the CGF1 arrival with no one to represent you.

I would love to make more money and with our contract coming up let's see what we can do. But here is something to ponder. With what I know from having worked here for 15 years would I give up the contract we have to make more money?
HELL NO!!! With this management team I want the contract. Period.

Ask Katai how many pilots are called to Cleveland each year for investigatory meetings. Without a contract we are f#%ked with this group.

Remember this ain't Bombardier any more. This is Ricci world.

 

[hammer2]

Rumor is that the FO pilots would get bumped up to Flex pay if the 1108 is decertified.