FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[el raton]

Now I know my vote will be 'no' when that time comes.

 

[The Architect]

Decision's Made

Now I know my vote will be 'no' when that time comes.

Why would anyone that has the opportunity to decide on the conditions of their work rules make a definite decision so early?

The terms of fences haven't been negotiated yet.
The pilot seniority list integration hasn't been negotiated yet.
The application to the NMB for a single carrier determination hasn't been filed yet.
The company's final departmental and aircraft realignment haven't been determined.

Yet, some individuals have already decided on their "vote" prior to seeing everything that will be on the table.

Does that make sense?

 

[Club ORD FO]

Yes some people are anti union based on principle alone. But I do find it odd that no pro union flex pilots are on here banging the drums and saying "finally now is our chance!" It just seems like nobody is excited about the idea. I know some pilots who have been pro union in the past but they are just not pro union when it comes to options and the 1108. I literally don't know of one person who has said they are looking forward to voting yes. I think it has been implied that if we vote no and the union is pushed out, we can somewhat remain separate. That option is much more appealing. Either way it turns out is a risk for us. Your 100+ on furlough is obviously an issue, we don't want our guys to lose jobs. We have no idea what the options MEC has in mind for that.

 

[jetwash]

I think it has been implied that if we vote no and the union is pushed out, we can somewhat remain separate. That option is much more appealing. .

Can you expand on this statement .
Where has this been coming from ? Flex/ Flight Options management? Yammer?

You do realize that it was not the Flight Options pilots who are pushing for this integration and that is Kenn himself that wants it. The union is only negotiating how the process will be handled to protect the interests of the Flight options pilots. It was Kenn's decision and the union is reacting to it. We have no say in the business decision.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Yes Club, you are right about there not being any Flex pilots talking about the union because they live in an environment of intimidation.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Yes Club, you are right about there not being any Flex pilots talking about the union because they live in an environment of intimidation.

Spare us all the drama. No one here is being intimidated. If anything, the intimidation comes from the 1108 pushers.

 

[el raton]

Yes Club, you are right about there not being any Flex pilots talking about the union because they live in an environment of intimidation.

"Intimidation"? Would you please give us an example of what forms of intimidation we're experiencing at flex?

 

[Seahawk]

Yes Club, you are right about there not being any Flex pilots talking about the union because they live in an environment of intimidation.

You are absolutely a nut case and need treatment! Delusional schizophrenic or whatever you are? Flexjet has been brought down to near catastrophic conditions many times and we have come out of it. Why? the crews were united and Bombardier listened. We could of brought the house down many times, but we worked it out. Yeah, it was brutal at times, but changes were made and we did it without a union. What does that say?
You have the opportunity to make your store front the greatest in the industry. I understand the negative work culture you lived under and that will go away. Give the new leadership a chance. If the house of cards are threatened to come down again, we can work it out together.

Look, I will tell you this, Ricci doesn't run Flexjet, get a handle on that. We can bring the house down pretty quickly if things go the other way. We have been down that road many times. DW and JW are your best friends. Too bad you cant talk to em.
There is no intimidation. It's your call.
Until then it"s business as usual.

 

[jetwash]

Look, I will tell you this, Ricci doesn't run Flexjet, get a handle on that..

:laugh:
:beer:

That will become a classic one day

:laugh:

Thank you :laugh:

 

[gret]

Why would anyone that has the opportunity to decide on the conditions of their work rules make a definite decision so early?

The terms of fences haven't been negotiated yet.
The pilot seniority list integration hasn't been negotiated yet.
The application to the NMB for a single carrier determination hasn't been filed yet.
The company's final departmental and aircraft realignment haven't been determined.

Yet, some individuals have already decided on their "vote" prior to seeing everything that will be on the table.

Does that make sense?

Geez...it seems all the pro union people already have decided...and trying to get everyone else to agree with them...

 

[el raton]

Why would anyone that has the opportunity to decide on the conditions of their work rules make a definite decision so early?

The terms of fences haven't been negotiated yet.
The pilot seniority list integration hasn't been negotiated yet.
The application to the NMB for a single carrier determination hasn't been filed yet.
The company's final departmental and aircraft realignment haven't been determined.

Yet, some individuals have already decided on their "vote" prior to seeing everything that will be on the table.

Does that make sense?

If you want our support, sell us on something else besides 'fear'. You're asking me to turn on a company that's been good to me for 12+ years. After the sale most of our management is still intact. While I can't stand the DO, he's a known quantity and doesn't warrant a union drive.

You're also asking us to join you....but I'm sorry, flight options is known as the ********************hole of the fractional industry which you and your management are responsible for that reputation.

You guys have to let this play out. You keep your teamsters and we'll stay as is. Pray that it never comes to a vote. The teamsters will be booted out, and you'll be forced to accept out pathetic pay and qol.

 

[jetwash]

. Give the new leadership a chance. l.

Yes the Flight Options pilots should give the :laugh: new leadership :laugh: a chance.

I think we should listen to this Flex pilot he seems to be well informed.

 

[dime line]

Yes the Flight Options pilots should give the :laugh: new leadership :laugh: a chance.

I think we should listen to this Flex pilot he seems to be well informed.

That is exactly what I was thinking........New Leadership... that's funny right there

 

[wingsnthings]

Why is that funny? You DO have new leadership. Leadership that has led Flex to be the premiere fractional. I know what the response will be, but the facts are that DW and JW are the ones steering both ships.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Can you expand on this statement .
Where has this been coming from ? Flex/ Flight Options management? Yammer?

You do realize that it was not the Flight Options pilots who are pushing for this integration and that is Kenn himself that wants it. The union is only negotiating how the process will be handled to protect the interests of the Flight options pilots. It was Kenn's decision and the union is reacting to it. We have no say in the business decision.

Well I guess I can't expand on that too much. Certainly nobody has for sure we will stay 100% separate, but on the other hand nobody has told us it would be a full merger. Our management has just said that they would "like" to stay separate. Do our own hiring, that sort of thing.

If only the union can force a single carrier ruling, why do it? What's the benefit to the options union and pilots?

 

[dime line]

"Pilots are key to our success," Ricci told AIN. ?We?re not asking for pay cuts, and we?ve tried to preserve salaries. Normally, we?d try to delay a single operating system, but we want [it], the sooner the better. But it could be bad for the union, since they might not have enough votes.?


It doesn't matter who is running what, this is from the owner of the whole thing. I love the part "we've tried to preserve salaries" admittedly I don't know what he is saying here, but he is the only one that has the ability to keep things in place, not "tried"

 

[Praetorian]

Why is that funny? You DO have new leadership. Leadership that has led Flex to be the premiere fractional. I know what the response will be, but the facts are that DW and JW are the ones steering both ships.

They just run operations dude. They don't get to make any of the big decisions.

I remember when we came over from Travel air. They initially put our Chief Pilot in charge. We also liked and respected him because he stood up for us.

Guess how long he lasted.

 

[slowtation capt]

Why is that funny? You DO have new leadership. Leadership that has led Flex to be the premiere fractional. I know what the response will be, but the facts are that DW and JW are the ones steering both ships.

So...If we have new leadership, why have we not heard anything about this? DW or JW whoever they are have not sent 1 message to the Options pilot group. If I became in charge of a whole new set of pilots, operations, etc.. I sure would send out an email, phone call, etc... to introduce myself to the people that don't know me.

Oh......I figured it out.....It's because the Union Yammer blocked us....That's right.
I guess DW and JW aren't familiar with something called email and Microsoft outlook which has a feature to send an email to a group, a group called "all flightoptions pilots"

 

[V1 Rotate]

So...If we have new leadership, why have we not heard anything about this? DW or JW whoever they are have not sent 1 message to the Options pilot group. If I became in charge of a whole new set of pilots, operations, etc.. I sure would send out an email, phone call, etc... to introduce myself to the people that don't know me.

Oh......I figured it out.....It's because the Union Yammer blocked us....That's right.
I guess DW and JW aren't familiar with something called email and Microsoft outlook which has a feature to send an email to a group, a group called "all flightoptions pilots"

You sure are a smarta$$, aren't you? Knowing DW and the rest of the leadership there at the Waterview, I'm confident they'd contact you guys directly if they were allowed to do so. We have open access to them anytime we wish.

 

[The Architect]

Management Communications Restricted

You sure are a smarta$$, aren't you? Knowing DW and the rest of the leadership there at the Waterview, I'm confident they'd contact you guys directly if they were allowed to do so. We have open access to them anytime we wish.

Is there something in the Flight Options CBA that states company management can't communicate with the pilot group?

Management (DAC and every party under the umbrella) has always freely communicated to it's pilots. Plenty of examples exist.

Why is there a belief that some restriction exists?

 

[Club ORD FO]

Is there something in the Flight Options CBA that states company management can't communicate with the pilot group?

Management (DAC and every party under the umbrella) has always freely communicated to it's pilots. Plenty of examples exist.

Why is there a belief that some restriction exists?

Flex management, well I guess now flex and options management, has told us that they can not directly communicate with the options pilots because the union won't let them, and there is language in the contract that says something to that effect. that's what we are being told.

On the flip side, I could ask why is the options MEC not communicating with the flex pilots? If they want us to join up, and if they are negotiating fences on our behalf, maybe some communication is in order. Not everyone will listen, but still. Might help with the rumors going back and forth

 

[The Architect]

Communications with the Union

Flex management, well I guess now flex and options management, has told us that they can not directly communicate with the options pilots because the union won't let them, and there is language in the contract that says something to that effect. that's what we are being told.

On the flip side, I could ask why is the options MEC not communicating with the flex pilots? If they want us to join up, and if they are negotiating fences on our behalf, maybe some communication is in order. Not everyone will listen, but still. Might help with the rumors going back and forth

Management has communicated directly with the Flight Options pilots. As to the statement that "the union won't let them," where is the factual evidence? Where is this communication and/or requirement from the union requiring this prohibition that management has agreed to? If an individual can find such prohibitive language in the Flight Options CBA, please point it out.

The union should be communicating more vigorously with the Flexjet Pilots group. And the Flexjet pilots should be actively pursuing those communications directly with the union. Why not contact the teamsters local that represents the Flight Options pilots and ask them?

 

[slowtation capt]

There was no need to include the entire email body, but here is the header and signature directly from an email that came to the entire flops pilot group from our leader.


Communication From Kenn Ricci, Chairman

Joe SalataReplyReply AllForwardActions
To:
All_PIC‎; All_SIC

Please read the following communication from Kenn Ricci, Chairman:

TO: All Active and Furloughed Flight Options Pilots
COMPANY MOST PRIVATE

I am writing to inform you

Kenn Ricci
Chairman

 

[Frac Cap]

I think that communication is from something that was already posted on here 7 months ago when they wanted to inform us that they were looking to get an LOA from the union in regards to Citation Air pilots that the union represents. I don't know why they needed to tell the whole pilot group about something that was supposed to be "most private" with the negations to buy Citation Air. I think it was less than a day before I read it on here. I would have thought that they would have just gone to the union in private. Because they have a confidentiality agreement they would not be aloud to discuss a sensitive issue like all of the Citation Air pilots loosing their jobs. But I guess the only reason to bring all us pilots in on that deal was to make the union the fall guy for a deal I hear that they truly didn't want to go through with anyhow.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

V1
One of my buds at Flex told me the other day that two Flex pilots were called on the carpet at HQ for posting pro-union stuff on FI. Sounds like intimidation to me.
Club ORD
Maybe this is why we haven't seen many pro-union posts from Flex pilots on here in a while? The words out and everyones scared.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

V1
One of my buds at Flex told me the other day that two Flex pilots were called on the carpet at HQ for posting pro-union stuff on FI. Sounds like intimidation to me.
Club ORD
Maybe this is why we haven't seen many pro-union posts from Flex pilots on here in a while? The words out and everyones scared.

Totally untrue. Not sure where you get you info but I would get a more reliable source.

What you are talking about is illegal. A company cannot prevent a workforce from unionizing. Any attemp to is a violation of the RLA.



The reason you don't see FJ pilots on here promoting the union is, suprise, we don't want your union. You guys keep holding out hope that this large group of FJ pilots that are in support of the 1108 are going to raise up.

Wake up to the reality, there may be a few (less than 5) FJ pilots that may be swayed to your awesome union. The rest of us want nothing to do with it.

If/when it comes to a vote you will see this.

You guys are kinda like the door to door salesmen for the 1108. Sorry, we aren't interested. We already have a superior product (no union). Thank you for your time.

Good day

 

[squawk]

TWA 2 ASA FO:
You should not speak for all FJ pilots. There has never been a poll for or against support. Your estimate of less than 5 is just an arbitrary guess.

If I could guess how many would consider a union at this time, it would be about 30%.

 

[jetwash]

On the flip side, I could ask why is the options MEC not communicating with the flex pilots? If they want us to join up, and if they are negotiating fences on our behalf, maybe some communication is in order. Not everyone will listen, but still. Might help with the rumors going back and forth

What have you been told by the Flex jet negotiators as to how the list intergration and fence negotiations have been going? Have they been taking your suggestions into consideration?
Were the Flex pilots polled as to how they want it organized or were just a few Flex pilot representatives involved in your proposal?

We just received some info that the company is preparing a counter proposal to be discussed at the May 8th meeting.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA 2 ASA FO:
You should not speak for all FJ pilots. There has never been a poll for or against support. Your estimate of less than 5 is just an arbitrary guess.

If I could guess how many would consider a union at this time, it would be about 30%.

That would be 100 pilots. There is no way.

Sorry

And no, I don't speak for the FJ pilots, just myself.

 

[squawk]

That would be 100 pilots. There is no way.

Sorry

And no, I don't speak for the FJ pilots, just myself.

My opinion is that there would be at least that many, 30%, that would CONSIDER the union option.

I think some FJ crews that post opinions that there is a universal opposition to the consideration of a union have absolutely no clue how the group is leaning and have no way to poll the entire seniority list.

Someday, depending on the option that is taken by IBT, FJ crews may be forced to decide.