FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[The Architect]

Same Umbrella

The Flexjet and Flight Options pilot groups will be under the same umbrella.

Why all the discontent?

Management for Flexjet and Flight Options are working together to unify and create a better, stronger and more competitive organization.

Isn't it in the best interest of both pilot groups to unify also? The result being to create a more viable environment for a successful and profitable operation.

 

[jetwash]

The Flexjet and Flight Options pilot groups will be under the same umbrella.

Exactly, Kenn has spoken and he said that the pilot groups will be merged.
How remains a question.

Its not the FO pilots saying that, it is Kenn himself. So how about being civil here since in a few short years you will probably be flying with one another like it or not.

 

[Fresh Air]

How is there no more Flexjet?! DW and JW are leading the operations at BOTH storefronts. Give them a chance to show you how great leadership can change morale and quality of life. If anything, I would say Flight Options is the one that will see changes much more than Flex.

I sincerely hope you are right about the great leadership, because it seems to me that they will get the chance you talk about. As much as I wish that the combined pilot group could have both the positive aspects of the Flexjet side (pay, benefits, good relationship with mgt), and the Options side (contractual guarantees and protections), I doubt that it will happen.

The more I research, talk to people, and learn, the more I doubt that the 1108 will garner a majority vote of even the Flops pilots, much less the Flex pilots, unless a major game changer happens between now and when a representation vote happens.

 

[jetwash]

Have fun with your fences, and we will watch your division of OneSky slowly wither away to just the small planes and a crappy contract.

Flame On!!!

Seeing as Kenn wants us all to be one pilot group, I will just have to bid over to the other store front which will be growing with new aircraft.

See, no problem.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Seeing as Kenn wants us all to be one pilot group, I will just have to bid over to the other store front which will be growing with new aircraft.

See, no problem.

Absolutely no problem. We will be hiring a lot this fall.

Send in your resume and see how it goes.

 

[GooseHZ]

Twa....since you seem to me to be a hired hand..why is a union so bad for the pilots of this company? You want to put your future firmly in the hand's of management. Why? Would you not want a voice at the table?

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Twa....since you seem to me to be a hired hand..why is a union so bad for the pilots of this company? You want to put your future firmly in the hand's of management. Why? Would you not want a voice at the table?

A union at Flexjet will not be necessary until it is necessary. We are not dumb, just waiting to see how thing play out.

 

[doh]

Absolutely no problem. We will be hiring a lot this fall.

Send in your resume and see how it goes.

I have to call you out. That is an absolutely stupid statement. Mr Ricci has said he wants and intends to combine the pilot groups. The lists will be merged. To state otherwise is stupid.

 

[GooseHZ]

Que B19 in 3....2....1....

 

[FR8DOG777]

Skumza I'm just gonna hang out fly my 40-50 legs a tour, not carry write ups, and not do O.T. until we're released to strike options after your buddy Ricci drags his feet as long as he can. I've earned the right to be here for that, then I'll be glad to turn it over to the "professionals" such as yourself.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I have to call you out. That is an absolutely stupid statement. Mr Ricci has said he wants and intends to combine the pilot groups. The lists will be merged. To state otherwise is stupid.

I understand what KR has said. Until single carrier status is determined by the NMB the list cannot be merged. Based on 1108s stance on that, I don't see that happening for a long time.

When or if the list is merged there will be new fences that will protect each pilot group through McKaskill-Bond. I am sure we will protect the rights of our first officers to upgrade to Captain before any FO pilots are allowed to bid to the FJ side.

It truly saddens me that the junior pilot at FO has 13+ years seniority! but we are not going to allow that fact to hurt our pilots career expectations. And yes, that is part of McKaskill-Bond.

You say that I should want a union if I am a management pilot. I can see how it makes their job easier in some ways. But the last thing I ever want for us at FJ us a union, especially the IBT. They seem to have done so many great things for you.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Skumza I'm just gonna hang out fly my 40-50 legs a tour, not carry write ups, and not do O.T. until we're released to strike options after your buddy Ricci drags his feet as long as he can. I've earned the right to be here for that, then I'll be glad to turn it over to the "professionals" such as yourself.

Maybe you should start another "how to preflight a FO Beechjet" thread. Show us how to ground the airplane every leg to "show" the company. The only people you hurt doing that are the owners who pay your salary and your fellow crews who have to pick up the legs you don't fly.

I am not saying to ever fly a broke airplane, but your level of pre flight shouldn't change to make a point. To me it sounds like your preflight is lacking unless you are trying to make a stand. If it's not ok to fly during contract negotiations, then why would it be safe to fly other times.

You being so excited about the opportunity to strike once again shows your complete hatred for FO. If I worked for a place that angered me so much I would quit. Maybe you've had some interviews and your anger towards FO has come out and the panel decided they didn't want that type of cancer at their company.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Can you please just go away. My hatred stems from the continuous exploitation of our professional services. I can assure you my preflights are the same irregardless of what stage of negotiations we are in. You want cooperation with carrying a little write up here or there to keep your operations flowing seamlessly. In the meantime you stuff your pockets full of cash made off the backs of us hard working pilots. Ricci is building an impressive machine to tear down netjets salaries with an unfair labor advantage. Do I want to strike, hell yes I want to strike. Its idiots like you in the ivory management towers that can prevent that. Get off your ass and send us a proposal with fair wages and a retirement package and you will hear no more from me. And no not disgruntled about not making it to the airlines. It's a bit difficult to run a business, commute, and work four on three off. Ricci will delay, tensions will build, and maybe just maybe their will be enough liquid magma coursing through all flight options pilots to send the message we have had enough. CYA

 

[Praetorian]

I understand what KR has said. Until single carrier status is determined by the NMB the list cannot be merged. Based on 1108s stance on that, I don't see that happening for a long time.

When or if the list is merged there will be new fences that will protect each pilot group through McKaskill-Bond. I am sure we will protect the rights of our first officers to upgrade to Captain before any FO pilots are allowed to bid to the FJ side.

It truly saddens me that the junior pilot at FO has 13+ years seniority! but we are not going to allow that fact to hurt our pilots career expectations. And yes, that is part of McKaskill-Bond.

You say that I should want a union if I am a management pilot. I can see how it makes their job easier in some ways. But the last thing I ever want for us at FJ us a union, especially the IBT. They seem to have done so many great things for you.

^^^ Classic management whipsaw technique. ^^^

Don't fall for it guys. They know if they can devide us over issues like this we all loose. This little punk is singing their song.

 

[The Architect]

Lists cannot be Merged? No Fences until after Single Carrier?

Flight Options Pilots Agreement

"[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If Pilots of the acquired carrier are hired by the Company, the seniority lists of the respective Pilot groups shall be integrated pursuant to Teamsters Merger Policy if both groups are represented by the IBT, or if the Pilots of the acquired airline are not represented by the IBT, then pursuant to Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions. Seniority integration procedures shall be promptly initiated following announcement of an operational merger affecting the seniority of the pilot groups. The Company or other Successor, as appropriate, shall accept the integrated seniority list. There shall be no system flush or removal of Pilots from their positions as a result of seniority list integration."[/FONT][/FONT]

Going on...

"Prior to integration of Seniority Lists in accordance with paragraph above, the parties shall negotiate a mutually agreeable fence agreement. The fences shall remain in effect for the period of time the acquired carrier continues as a separate transportation system. Until the fences are removed, all aircraft (including orders and options to purchase aircraft) and the operations of each pre-transaction carrier shall remain separated."

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]This reference may be wrong. However, if not, it appears that Flexjet pilots are affected by the Flight Options CBA. Perhaps, indirectly. But they are. The fence agreements seem to keep things separate, unless agreed otherwise. The seniority lists can be integrated, if the parties so choose.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Where is the language preventing this, or any other aspects of agreed integration of operations, prior to a single carrier determination?
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[t-bone]

That ISL language seems to hinge on who acquired who. Am I correct that Flex was acquired by DAC while Flight Options watched from the sidelines? If that's the case, which company remains after the operations are merged?

 

[slowtation capt]

TWA 2 ASA FO are you Flex's Do*cheBag DO who's been assigned the task of getting on the message boards and figuring out who is who by putting together what they say, where they heard, and then looking up trips to connect the dots and then making a list of the people from that are pro-union or talking bad about the company, or etc......

What exactly are you going to be doing with that list?

 

[Club ORD FO]

Flight Options Pilots Agreement

"[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If Pilots of the acquired carrier are hired by the Company, the seniority lists of the respective Pilot groups shall be integrated pursuant to Teamsters Merger Policy if both groups are represented by the IBT, or if the Pilots of the acquired airline are not represented by the IBT, then pursuant to Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Where is the language preventing this, or any other aspects of agreed integration of operations, prior to a single carrier determination?
[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE]

I have not had a chance to read the whole options contract, but that first sentence is worded odd. "If pilots of the acquired carrier are hired by the company?" Technically we (flexjet) pilots were not hired by DAC, we work for Flexjet LLC. Don't know if that means much.

What a mess though. Personally I'd rather stay separate but I think a full merger in inevitable. The major question is will the combined group be union or non union. going to be a messy couple of years I think.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Can you please just go away. My hatred stems from the continuous exploitation of our professional services. I can assure you my preflights are the same irregardless of what stage of negotiations we are in. You want cooperation with carrying a little write up here or there to keep your operations flowing seamlessly. In the meantime you stuff your pockets full of cash made off the backs of us hard working pilots. Ricci is building an impressive machine to tear down netjets salaries with an unfair labor advantage. Do I want to strike, hell yes I want to strike. Its idiots like you in the ivory management towers that can prevent that. Get off your ass and send us a proposal with fair wages and a retirement package and you will hear no more from me. And no not disgruntled about not making it to the airlines. It's a bit difficult to run a business, commute, and work four on three off. Ricci will delay, tensions will build, and maybe just maybe their will be enough liquid magma coursing through all flight options pilots to send the message we have had enough. CYA

I am actually not a management pilot. I work VERY hard on the line making FJ a profitable company.

You need to be careful about your anger. You are going to go off on a FJ pilot at an FBO and end up losing your job.

KR has no need to rush through contract negotiations. The IBT sold you thus crappy contract. Why would he be in a hurry to bring you up to our wages while you still have the IBT thorn in his side.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA 2 ASA FO are you Flex's Do*cheBag DO who's been assigned the task of getting on the message boards and figuring out who is who by putting together what they say, where they heard, and then looking up trips to connect the dots and then making a list of the people from that are pro-union or talking bad about the company, or etc......

What exactly are you going to be doing with that list?

I don't have the time to try to figure out who you are. I am not the DO. I am sure he has much more important things to worry about that an angry FO pilot.

I actually just am really enjoying watching you guys get spun up over something you have ZERO control over.