Flexjet DO

[FR8DOG777]

Whatever, staple to the bottom of the list. I see you guys tearing down the last nine years of our efforts all the while calling us dirtbag bottom feeders. Welcome to the jungle boys, ibt seniority integration policy is DOH with fences, but oh wait thats right you guys are anti union. Where's John Mclain? Did he drown in a rainstorm yet with his snot nose held too high? You need to come back John, I need you to run this gear switch thingy!

 

[Fresh Air]

There's an awful lot of speculation going on here, creating stress and hard feelings without any actual hard intel. Why don't we all just take a deep breath, relax a little, and wait for the announcement. It's out of our hands anyway.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

No word on the "B" scale yet?

 

[Propilot77]

calling us dirtbag bottom feeders!

No you have done that yourself...Never heard that from anyone out there! Your right Most pilots at Flex are anti-union the problem is they have a larger pilot group than you so if and when a vote happens don't count on support hasn't happened now 3 straight pushes. Most of the guys are anti-union because either A. They have never been in one and don't understand how they work nor do they care, as long as their "current" PAYCHECK keeps rolling in. B.They hate the Teamsters.
Most of the pilots at Flex run by their own Motto of "I got mine, pull up the ladder boys,"

 

[CL300Pilot]

Whatever, staple to the bottom of the list. I see you guys tearing down the last nine years of our efforts all the while calling us dirtbag bottom feeders. Welcome to the jungle boys, ibt seniority integration policy is DOH with fences, but oh wait thats right you guys are anti union. Where's John Mclain? Did he drown in a rainstorm yet with his snot nose held too high? You need to come back John, I need you to run this gear switch thingy!

FR8, several things.

First, I don't know of a single Flexjet guy/gal who ever called FLOPS pilots "dirtbag bottom feeders."

Second, and this one is important for those who have some unbelieveable resentment towards Flex pilots for the acquisition, not one single Flex pilot asked for this. So why all the hatred?

Third, in regards to the union. The reason why we have voted it down three times now is that when you weigh all of the pro/cons, we at Flex felt that our relationship with management was better than having a third party mediator in the middle. Whether you like it or not, that is just a fact of life. While our management is not perfect, they have always tended to treat us right.

What I personally find interesting is that I have spoke with several pilots from FLOPS, union and non-union. By and large, and I don't really understand why, the union guys are bitter and the non-union guys are happy. I see the same bitterness and resentment out of NJA guys as well. So, with that being said, if being a part of a union is so great, why are you guys so angry?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Problem for the Flex pilots now is that your content world is about to change. The changes will start slowly so that no single event will wake you up. Then one day you do wake up and ask yourself how did I get here?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

BTW, CL I am a happy union supporter.

 

[DirtyBeech]

There is no specific policy for seniority integration with the IBT. I'm sure DOH will be their goal, but don't just accept that as a certainty. And I'm sure two year fences will be put in place to keep training costs down. Just look at it from a practical perspective.

As for calling Flops guys dirtbags.....weak sauce. At least try to make the BS believable.

 

[shanes123]

CL your relationship with management was undoubtably good. Problem is that is no longer your management Ricci is steering and he's heading you straight for a level 5

 

[ProFracPilot]

There is no specific policy for seniority integration with the IBT. I'm sure DOH will be their goal, but don't just accept that as a certainty. And I'm sure two year fences will be put in place to keep training costs down. Just look at it from a practical perspective.

I thought the 1108 was on record as saying they would follow McCaskill/Bond regarding seniority integration? Isn't the reason they gave for refusing to sign the CitationAir LOA was that M/B prevented them from doing so?

As for calling Flops guys dirtbags.....weak sauce. At least try to make the BS believable.

I agree, FR8DOGGY is just trying to stir the pot. I've met several Flex crews on the road, and even had a couple of "world view" discussions with some of their more senior pilots over breakfast. While we see things from a different perspective, they were very respectful of my views and I of theirs. There's nothing to be gained by name calling and creating dissension between the pilot groups. And unless your goal to assure a "no" vote should it get to that, the name calling and accusations will only encourage it. Act like the professional pilot you claim to be, FR8.

 

[doh]

Problem for the Flex pilots now is that your content world is about to change. The changes will start slowly so that no single event will wake you up. Then one day you do wake up and ask yourself how did I get here?

Actually, I'm watching for small changes. And some of them are disturbing already.

 

[jetwash]

I have no idea what Fr8dog is talking about all of the Flex pilots I have talked to have been really nice and friendly.

We are all just trying to get as much information as we can as to what KR has planned for all of us. So don't assume all Flops pilots are like an anonymous poster on the internet.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Don't make me find the quotes. However I am willing to put my negative anti-union conversations with SOME flex pilots, not ALL in the past. I am eager to join flex pilots as brothers in arms fighting the true enemy of our profession, Kenn Ricci and the deplorable working conditions and pay. There is much uncertainty right now, but this is for certain. There will be consolidation as well as a vote for representation. TEAMSTERS are by far a better solution than Ricci slave labor. We have an opportunity to rightfully take back a quality standard of living commensurate with industry standard pay in a good economy. Anything short of that is a no vote for me. If flex votes the union out tearing down nine years of our collective efforts you don't have to worry about old fr8 cause I wont be here. I bear no ill will or animosity towards ANY flex pilots. I WILL AGREE TO DISAGREE THAT WE DO NOT REQUIRE ADEQUATE REPRESENTATION TO PROTECT US FROM THE ATROCITIES COMMITTED AGAINST US ON A DAILY BASIS FROM INEPT GREEDY MANAGEMENT. Good day

 

[Club ORD FO]

The majority of Flex Pilots may be anti union now, but if we end up merging with FLOPS and lose a lot of pay, benefits, and QOL, then it might be a different story. You say that you're worried the Flex pilots will tear down everything you've worked hard to build, and I get that, but keep in mind we're worried about being forced onto your pay and work rules, and thus losing everything we've built. I think it is best for everyone involved if we stay separate. Wishful thinking?

 

[chainring]

The majority of Flex Pilots may be anti union now, but if we end up merging with FLOPS and lose a lot of pay, benefits, and QOL, then it might be a different story. You say that you're worried the Flex pilots will tear down everything you've worked hard to build, and I get that, but keep in mind we're worried about being forced onto your pay and work rules, and thus losing everything we've built. I think it is best for everyone involved if we stay separate. Wishful thinking?

Without a CBA you will have no security with this group. He may keep things ok just long enough to get rid of the Union but after that he will tear down your pay and benefits you have now. Then it's another 4 yr process to organize and negotiate a new union contract.

 

[jetwash]

, but keep in mind we're worried about being forced onto your pay and work rules, and thus losing everything we've built.

The pilots at Flight Options don't want you forced onto our pay scale we want to force the company to put us on your pay scale.

Lets not forget that when NetJets got their big raise CitationShares and Flex gave big pay raises to match or come close.

The Flight Options pilots were also waiting for that big raise but it never came, hence the reason we started to organize.
We went through years of negotiations and had to fight to secure a fraction of what Bombardier gave you without a fight.

Now we are all working for "The Man" who didn't want to provide industry standard pay without a fight. Please keep that in mind that it was KR and not the FO pilots who wanted us to be the lowest paid.

 

[chainring]

I wish no ill will on any of the Flex guys and gals. But It is going to be a sad day if we lose the protections and work rules of the Union. And remember we negotiated this "first" contract during very crappy economy. Anything Flex had before was because of Bombardier. Ricci is not or ever will be Bombardier. Once he wins and gets rid of the Union he knows it just bought him years Ricci management bliss. What you have today will be long gone and no contract in place that could be renogiated in better times which we all see is happening.

 

[DirtyBeech]

The majority of Flex Pilots may be anti union now, but if we end up merging with FLOPS and lose a lot of pay, benefits, and QOL, then it might be a different story. You say that you're worried the Flex pilots will tear down everything you've worked hard to build, and I get that, but keep in mind we're worried about being forced onto your pay and work rules, and thus losing everything we've built. I think it is best for everyone involved if we stay separate. Wishful thinking?

Very wishful.

We're already sharing management and the lawyers are at work behind the scenes. You can believe that. Uniform and paint changes are openly talked about and coming. I can say with some certainty that we already have an FX tail undergoing a Flopsification. Separate storefronts are not separate companies. I don't know how the seniority list will be merged, but it will be, fence agreements will be out in place ( probably timed to coincide with the IBT's new contract or decertification vote) and then it's anyone's guess.

 

[993_Pilot]

I thought the 1108 was on record as saying they would follow McCaskill/Bond regarding seniority integration? Isn't the reason they gave for refusing to sign the CitationAir LOA was that M/B prevented them from doing so?

M/B did prevent it, but is also doesn't say exactly how seniority list must be integrated. M/B simply requires that we need to follow the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions, which basically say that the carrier make provisions for the integration of seniority lists in a "fair and equitable manner," including negotiation with union representatives and binding arbitration in covered transactions. The participants in the negotiation/arbitration process are the affected employee groups, and the carrier or carriers involved. The interests of unionized employee groups are represented by their union, while interests of non-unionized employee groups may be represented by employee committees or by the carrier. Firing all the Citation Air pilots would certainly not have been "Fair and Equitable" for them, therefore the IBT could not sign that LOA. KR could have gone forward with the purchase anyways, if he was serious, but we all know it was a game of smoke and mirrors designed to create FUD. Now getting back to the current deal, it is easy to see why DOH is likely to be considered the simplest, "fair and equitable" manner for Seniority integration of Flex and Flops, although there are obviously other possibilities that could be considered.

 

[shanes123]

KR is gonna win this. He pretty much already has with the citation air trickery Best advice is for every pilot out there to move on. Easier said then done. But with opportunities out there this isn't a bad time. Good luck.