Flexjet DO

[shanes123]

I'm not trying to predict what Ricci may or may not do, but why would he change the way Flexjet does things to match the way Options does things when Flexjet is the one making a ton of money? Shouldn't he try to get Options to mirror Flex instead? We all agree that he likes making money, so why would he try to destroy the way things are done at Flex? Just an observation.

That's what a logical approach would be. Problem is its ken Ricci and he talks about changing things. But in reality his ego is to big not to do things his way and micro manage everything. Flex will get there fly slow nonsense and they will be taking check rides in the plane (if there not already ) and if he does take something from flex it will be minimal. He will turn flex into options slowly just like he did travel air. And that was a much better company then flops could ever hope to be.

 

[V1 Rotate]

That's what a logical approach would be. Problem is its ken Ricci and he talks about changing things. But in reality his ego is to big not to do things his way and micro manage everything. Flex will get there fly slow nonsense and they will be taking check rides in the plane (if there not already ) and if he does take something from flex it will be minimal. He will turn flex into options slowly just like he did travel air. And that was a much better company then flops could ever hope to be.

If anything, I wouldn't mind having your meal plan, from what I hear.

 

[Fresh Air]

I'm not trying to predict what Ricci may or may not do, but why would he change the way Flexjet does things to match the way Options does things when Flexjet is the one making a ton of money? Shouldn't he try to get Options to mirror Flex instead? We all agree that he likes making money, so why would he try to destroy the way things are done at Flex? Just an observation.

We would sure appreciate it if they mirrored Flex's best practices such as paying a living wage, 401K match, and adding more large aircraft to our fleet, but you can bet your stripes that won't be part of the plan.

And about that "Flex is making a ton of money" thing, that has a lot of us scratching our heads. Corporations don't sell off companies that are making a ton of money unless they forsee that revenue stream drying up in the near future. So why did Bombardier throw you guys to the wolves? Puzzling.

BTW Flops makes money too, it just gets siphoned off to support Ricci's other enterprises (Nextant Aerospace, Constant Aviation, etc). That way they can pay starvation wages and still cry poor at the negotiation table.

The meal plan is damn generous for sure, but we didn't ask for it and it's no substitute for the roughly $2000 per month we're underpaid. No matter how hard you try, you just can't eat that much steak & lobster, although some try.

 

[V1 Rotate]

We would sure appreciate it if they mirrored Flex's best practices such as paying a living wage, 401K match, and adding more large aircraft to our fleet, but you can bet your stripes that won't be part of the plan.

And about that "Flex is making a ton of money" thing, that has a lot of us scratching our heads. Corporations don't sell off companies that are making a ton of money unless they forsee that revenue stream drying up in the near future. So why did Bombardier throw you guys to the wolves? Puzzling.

BTW Flops makes money too, it just gets siphoned off to support Ricci's other enterprises (Nextant Aerospace, Constant Aviation, etc). That way they can pay starvation wages and still cry poor at the negotiation table.

The meal plan is damn generous for sure, but we didn't ask for it and it's no substitute for the roughly $2000 per month we're underpaid. No matter how hard you try, you just can't eat that much steak & lobster, although some try.

Bombardier sold us for a couple of reasons. 1) They needed the cash to offset the money they were spending on the C Series and 2) Bombardier is not in business to be in the fractional business. That wasn't Pierre's initial intent with Flexjet some 17 years ago but it managed to morph into what it is today. Bombardier is in the business of selling whole aircraft to individual owners.

I do happen to know that our profit margin was/is well north of a double-digit percentage and our investors are expecting just a few points shy of we're already making.

As far as your pay and benefits, I feel for ya. You guys deserve much more. We're very happy, most of the group anyway, that the majority of our pay and benefits were kept in place for 2014. 2015...we'll see what happens.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Hmmm…keep Flex and sell a few aircraft while taking in some millions in profit or sell Flex for $180M up front with an additional billion or two in aircraft orders?

It's really not a very hard trail to follow.

 

[993_Pilot]

Hmmm?keep Flex and sell a few aircraft while taking in some millions in profit or sell Flex for $180M up front with an additional billion or two in aircraft orders?

It's really not a very hard trail to follow.

So you think the "additional billion or two in aircraft orders" will actually happen?...That there is funny, I don't care who you are, said Larry the Cable Guy. KR loves the fact that there are some who will still buy in to the "Shiny New Jet" syndrome. As Journey once sang, "keep on beLIEving!"

 

[Fresh Air]

Plausible answers, all. Makes it all a little less puzzling maybe.

It will be interesting to see what the DAC audit comes up with on the "best practices" thing. My bet is that they start pushing to limit the FO domiciles to mirror the Flex domicile system when bargaining time comes around, and not much else. Maybe put a limit on the FO crew meal expense.

Thanks for the well wishes, V1. This board could use more camaraderie and less trash talking.

 

[DirtyBeech]

So you think the "additional billion or two in aircraft orders" will actually happen?...That there is funny, I don't care who you are, said Larry the Cable Guy. KR loves the fact that there are some who will still buy in to the "Shiny New Jet" syndrome. As Journey once sang, "keep on beLIEving!"

There's options and then there's orders so blow it out your a**. But let's say that we only purchase $500 M in planes instead of $2.4B or whatever that ridiculous number is. Add in the purchase price of Flex. Do you know how long it would have taken Flex to generate that kinda money for Bombardier?

It's not shiny jets. It's money. And it is not that hard to follow if you aren't so intent in showing your backside.

 

[fob727]

The guy lost his job, give him a break.

So has many in the aviation business....

 

[993_Pilot]

There's options and then there's orders so blow it out your a**. But let's say that we only purchase $500 M in planes instead of $2.4B or whatever that ridiculous number is. Add in the purchase price of Flex. Do you know how long it would have taken Flex to generate that kinda money for Bombardier?

It's not shiny jets. It's money. And it is not that hard to follow if you aren't so intent in showing your backside.

The same Sh!t that blows out my A$$ is exactly what is coming out of KR's mouth and you are really showing your ignorance. Orders mean nothing more than a negotiated price discount ... IF (Big IF) you really buy that many. If the order changes due to market demand (or lack there of), then so does the price. Both sides love to make big order announcements because it fools the majority of the public in to beLIEving it means so much more than it really does. KR will only buy as many shiny jets as his sales force can sell. No more, no less. Ask yourself how many of the 100 Firm and 50 options for Embraer Phenoms has Flops taken delivery of since they made their order in 2007? Maybe 25 or so? At the rate Flops is taking delivery of them now, they will fulfill their "obligation" for the first 100 by 2025. But don't worry, in the case of Flexjet, I am sure it will all happen much faster.

I don't wish any ill will for the Flex pilots, but I sure wish a few of you would wake the hell up, pull your head out of the sand and look at KR's actual track record, instead of just beLIEving everything he says.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Showing your a$$ on an aviation gossip board is a funny way of supporting the Flex pilot group.

I'm well aware of how the shell game is played with regard to aircraft orders. I'm also aware of the fact that Flex is in the process of turning over its fleet, retiring the 60 and bringing the 85 in. Additionally we are out of inventory to sell so we need the extra airframes. All of that was before KR laid his hands on us. I realize that you're not privy to that kind of thing, but perhaps some folks know wtf they are talking about.

As for Flex pilots buying in to KR's spiel....you're ill informed on that account as well.

 

[993_Pilot]

A bit touchy aren't you? When I suggest the $2B+ order is mostly about PR, why do you get so upset, then say you are well aware of how it works in your next post? It is a bit naive to think nothing about the companies plans will change from "before KR laid his hands on us". I never said all, or even most of the Flex pilots were buying KR's B.S., just a few. FYI, I was trying to support the pilots at Flexjet by making them aware of KR's history, and what they might be in for. I hope that I am wrong and KR treats you all great and delivers on all his promises, but his past would suggest otherwise. So, carry-on, beLIEve what you what, and I'll try not to spoil the grand illusion of Flexjet's new rosy future that KR will continue to paint for you. Good Luck to all the Flex pilots, including you.

 

[DirtyBeech]

The question posed was "Why would Bombardier sell off a profitable division?". The answer, as you have now missed twice, is money. Perhaps you think $180 M is a fair price for 80 new to used private jet aircraft, mx inventory, logistical support and owner contracts. Or perhaps you can figure out that BBA decided to make new aircraft sales a part of the agreement. Once again, turning over the fleet and adding additional airframes for inventory was in the works before the purchase. The time frame has simply been accelerated and our used aircraft now have a guaranteed refurbisher and buyer in the DAC family.

I'm a little touchy because I'm good and damn tired of the Flops group spastically throwing themselves at our group on message boards, fbo's, hotels and shuttles to spread the news that KR is untrustworthy. No s**t. That was known when we were bought. Sure, some are gobbling it up. Some always will. Most of us know better. And most of us know there's not a thing we can do about it.

Yeah, I know, organize. You don't know the Flex pilot group if you think that will happen short of our benefits package being rolled back to Flops' standard. I'd be more concerned about our former DO being hired by DAC to break your union if I were you.

 

[shanes123]

Does Flex do the 6 month check ride in the airplane or sim?

 

[shanes123]

I'd be more concerned about our former DO being hired by DAC to break your union if I were you.

Ricci is doing a fine job of that on his own..your DO is not needed for that. But he will be used until Ricci decides to replace him with one of his loyal henchman.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Former DO. Reading is fundamental.

No, we don't do anything other than .299 rides in the planes.

 

[shanes123]

well thats gonna change...

 

[chainring]

Some terms you might want to familiarize yourself with-
1. Could not duplicate
2. No defects noted
3. You have received this 10 in 24 warning
4. To be followed by another 10 in 24 warning
5. Realistically scheduled
6. 4 pilots per airplane crew ratio and were overstaffed or surplus
7. Sorry your the only plane we have to cover this trip
8. Sorry your PTO was denied due to understaffing
9. Generator, PAC and aux hyd pump removed from N? and installed on N?
10. Unfortunately we have to suspend your 401K match at this time for the next 5 years
even though we're profitable.
11. From Bob R, "please kindly call"
12. This item was placed on the NEF list - for 2 years
13. Ops check good
14. Complacency
15. Min rest
16. Your sick, we need a doctors note
17. Sorry but due to schedule change we cannot accommodate crew meals on this leg
18. To be followed by " we will try to get them after your next 4 hour leg"
19. CGF1 Arrival

 

[Club ORD FO]

Our maintenance department is great. Our stats speak for themselves (everything is high 90%). If we write something up it gets fixed or covered by another airplane. Why would KR suddenly instruct our maintenance folks to not try as hard? That doesn't make any sense.

Also, we never had a PTO system until now, so it can't get worse. Same with crew meals, they have more or less sucked, can only get better. Some have been asked for a doctors note, nothing new there. And we get min rested too. Nothing new there. We're already running as a well oiled machine, there is no need to get more productively out of the operation so why change anything?

For all you options doom and gloomers, yeah we hear you, but there's no point in continually warning us how screwed we are gonna get. Lets just wait and see.

 

[dime line]

Our maintenance department is great. Our stats speak for themselves (everything is high 90%). If we write something up it gets fixed or covered by another airplane. Why would KR suddenly instruct our maintenance folks to not try as hard? That doesn't make any sense.

Also, we never had a PTO system until now, so it can't get worse. Same with crew meals, they have more or less sucked, can only get better. Some have been asked for a doctors note, nothing new there. And we get min rested too. Nothing new there. We're already running as a well oiled machine, there is no need to get more productively out of the operation so why change anything?

For all you options doom and gloomers, yeah we hear you, but there's no point in continually warning us how screwed we are gonna get.

Lets just wait and see

.

That last sentence is what scares me the most reguarding FLEX guys!