Flexjet Big Day...jan 15th

[John MClain]

please fasten your seat belts as you ride the coat tails......

It's no secret what Netjets and the 1108 have done for our industry and we are all very appreciative of those efforts, but comments like yours only poison and tarnish those feelings.

They also add doubt and apprehension to the minds of those who are considering a move to under the umbrella of the union of which you and those like you are a huge part of.

I thank you for those very confidence inspiring words. A simple "your welcome" would have sufficed.

"What a Tool"

Oh, and by the way. Unless you are doing more than just paying your dues, you my small minded friend are also Just Riding The Coat Tails.

 

[learflyer]

KP called me last year to interview. She asked if I lived near one of the domiciles. I told her I would use FLL. I said I lived in ORL. She said that was too far away. I was kind of floored. Oh well.

 

[Iam3rd]

That's the problem Cliff. While the pay boost is a good thing and the schedule change to 7/7 offering is now "baseline" for the industry, the domicile issue is the biggest red flag. I agree that Flex management is probably keeping that card for the eventual union negotiations - they don't want to give everything away now.

That's too bad because Flex can now be more competitive for the "best" pilots out there only if those pilots want to restrict themselves to four locations. Not everyone wants to live in those locations. Meanwhile, Netjets, CS and Avantair each offer 20+ domiciles - why can't Flexjet? I bet FLOPS offers more domiciles than Flexjet. Doesn't make a lot of sense unless this is a negotiating tactic...

I have to admit that I was quite concerned about a union being voted into Flex. From what I hear talking to the other guys that have been here longer than I, the last 2 months have been the largest swing towards a union they have ever seen.

I was at the pilots meeting yesterday when the new benifits package was announced. I would have to say that a majority of the people in the room were quite pleased with the improvements, including myself. With regards to the new domiciles, I guess they are still getting enough applicants either currently living in those domiciles or applicants willing to move to those domiciles. And if its something that is going to cost them money, why do it until it is needed. If it gets to the point where it is needed, then it will probably make business sense to do it.

So from what I saw yesterday and talking to the guys there, we don't have to worry about a union anytime soon.

 

[gunfyter]

So from what I saw yesterday and talking to the guys there, we don't have to worry about a union anytime soon.

Anytime we we help you out again by raising the bar for you... again ... don't hesitate to ask....

 

[CaveoFalco]

Caveo, I have no idea what you're talking about, but with fourteen posts, total, what's your interest in this thread?

Just because I don't post here does not mean I do not follow what is going on in this industry. My post followed a short discussion about the merits of 401K vs. pension. Do the flippin math (no I did it for you)- it ain't that hard to figure out. $40,000 pension might sound great until you look at other options.

 

[doylehargraves]

Your math doesn't include compounded interest from the extra contributions to the 401k. The bottom line is this: if you can accumulate more funds in your 401k than the projected payout from the pension IN ADDITION TO what you would have in your 401k without the extra contribution, then its worth going to the 401k plan.

Example at end of retirement:

Current:
401k--$800,000
Pension--$800,000= 20yrs
Total=1.6 million

SO, you would technically have to accumulate an extra $800,00 in your 401k if you gave up the pension---assuming you only live 20 years after retirement.

 

[NETFLIER]

Mclain,

your poor state of mind is why you interpret my words as an insult.

A simple your welcome isnt needed because I aint doing anything for you. I work my arse off everyday, in the union, and for Netjets and it pays off in reward. You dont have to be a leader in the union or on the MEC to be a big part of it. What you have to do is stick together as a team and have the same goals as set forth by leadership.

The words i would like to be saying to you are
"welcome aboard the union of 1108."

 

[doh]

Yeah where does this 202 thing come from? The standard bid is 16.... 16X13 bid periods = 208

I always bid down to 14. 4 months I was given 16, 4 months I got 14, and 5 months I got 15. I don't know what all this "based on" BS is about, but I take the daily rate and multiply it by the number of days I want to work and there you have it. I don't really want to fly 7/7, I would rather have 5/5/4. So this new bid allowing the workaholics to ask for more should allow me to bid down even more. Happiness! Go little workaholics, go!

 

[jackpilot]

Amen brotha!

 

[notapilot]

Your math doesn't include compounded interest from the extra contributions to the 401k. The bottom line is this: if you can accumulate more funds in your 401k than the projected payout from the pension IN ADDITION TO what you would have in your 401k without the extra contribution, then its worth going to the 401k plan.

Example at end of retirement:

Current:
401k--$800,000
Pension--$800,000= 20yrs
Total=1.6 million

SO, you would technically have to accumulate an extra $800,00 in your 401k if you gave up the pension---assuming you only live 20 years after retirement.

Exactly. So basicly you need to turn a total of $31,500 in additional contributions over a 30 year career into $800,000. If you can achieve that you should switch.

 

[Necromonger]

What's your PRICE?

…THANKS FLEXJET.

Let's give them credit. They stepped up in a big way. They threw money at us. I'll take it. …

…If anyone thinks that this group is willing to give this up to bring in a union, picket, go on strike if necessary, then I have some land 50 miles south of HTO to sell you.

Life is good today! Bases would have been nice…

I was fortunate to just getting hired. WOOT! Pay raise! Way to go FLEXJET!!!

I'm happy.

Well, well, well….

Flex figured out the price, and Bought some votes.

I guess DG did his homework, and figured out how much it would cost to make the bottom half of the seniority list happy.

Money….(A day worked at Flex is still worth less than a day worked at NetJ.)
202days vs. 184days a year.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that the pay bump was not big for the FO’s and low seniority captains, but Don’t loose sight of what the 1108 is trying to do here.
It’s not just about the money.

-“Rolling Rest” is a REALITY HERE! If you don’t see it, you must be on Phase one IOE.
- Bases are not just for new hires.
-Defined work rules are needed here.
-Same Crappy healthcare
-Nothing is in a Contract, so it can be changed at ANY time.
-Job Security?

They will continue to “Look into” these other issues, with no real results.
Even if they change the FOM, remember, the FODM can waive the rules to get you up to that 16hr. day.

Now, let’s all take a big Swig of that Kool-Aide!

CHEERS:beer:

 

[Club ORD FO]

"They will continue to “Look into” these other issues, with no real results.
Even if they change the FOM, remember, the FODM can waive the rules to get you up to that 16hr. day."


slight correction here.... there is no limit for an "unplanned extension" in the FOM. we can theoretically work a 16, 17, 18+ hour day if it was a weather, ATC, or whatever delay.

correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure there is no limit. there sure as hell should be though.

 

[johnsonrod]

I have to admit that I was quite concerned about a union being voted into Flex. From what I hear talking to the other guys that have been here longer than I, the last 2 months have been the largest swing towards a union they have ever seen.

I was at the pilots meeting yesterday when the new benifits package was announced. I would have to say that a majority of the people in the room were quite pleased with the improvements, including myself. With regards to the new domiciles, I guess they are still getting enough applicants either currently living in those domiciles or applicants willing to move to those domiciles. And if its something that is going to cost them money, why do it until it is needed. If it gets to the point where it is needed, then it will probably make business sense to do it.

So from what I saw yesterday and talking to the guys there, we don't have to worry about a union anytime soon.

I am sure management will be pleased to read that. You are playing directly into their hands.... The fact that every other fractional offers far more domiciles (including FLOPS!) should bother people. Sure, if you are a Texas boy from the Big-D it don't matter. Still, the domicile issue will reduce the number of quality applicants going forward...

 

[johnsonrod]

I have to admit that I was quite concerned about a union being voted into Flex. From what I hear talking to the other guys that have been here longer than I, the last 2 months have been the largest swing towards a union they have ever seen.

I was at the pilots meeting yesterday when the new benifits package was announced. I would have to say that a majority of the people in the room were quite pleased with the improvements, including myself. With regards to the new domiciles, I guess they are still getting enough applicants either currently living in those domiciles or applicants willing to move to those domiciles. And if its something that is going to cost them money, why do it until it is needed. If it gets to the point where it is needed, then it will probably make business sense to do it.

So from what I saw yesterday and talking to the guys there, we don't have to worry about a union anytime soon.

I am sure management will be pleased to read that. You are playing directly into their hands.... The fact that every other fractional offers far more domiciles (including FLOPS!) should bother people. Sure, if you are a Texas boy from the Big-D it don't matter. Still, the domicile issue will reduce the number of quality applicants going forward...

At least you have more cash now to pay for your high healthcare costs and crew meals (unlike the unionized Netjets pilots). But you don't care...

 

[Club ORD FO]

Life is good today!

and I can't resist... nothing has changed as of today. may is still a long way off. a lot of stuff had "date TBD" on it.

 

[Necromonger]

slight correction here.... there is no limit for an "unplanned extension" in the FOM. we can theoretically work a 16, 17, 18+ hour day if it was a weather, ATC, or whatever delay.

correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure there is no limit. there sure as hell should be though.

Yes, you are correct.... I was refering to the practice of walking away from the aircraft at the 15:59 hour to keep you away from the 16:59 duty day...

They can reduce show times, turn times, and shutdown times. Dispatch will even give you legs nonstop that clearly require a fuel stop, and call this a planned duty day to keep you under 14 hours. When you stop for fuel, It becomes an unplanned over 14 so no minute for minute rest.
YES, it does happen. You just have to put your foot down and stop this trainwreck. Then, you become the bad guy.

neat stuff, huh?

 

[NoJoy]

What's the typical sched at Flex? What will a new hire usually get? I could not find this on any previous post.

 

[finnjl]

I am sure you can not work over a 16 hour day for wx, delays, etc. for any reason. The Flex FOM even says that. You can work over 14 hours for those previous reasons. Parts 135 and 91k are similar to part 121 concerning the 16 hour limit. In fact if you take off knowing your are going over 16 hours than that is not legal either.

You could work over 16 to airline home but that would have to be agreed upon by you. You could chose not to airline and get an OT day.

 

[finnjl]

What's the typical sched at Flex? What will a new hire usually get? I could not find this on any previous post.

16on/12off for every 28 day bid cycle and there are 13 cycles per year. That is what most folks get.

Everybodys daily flying schedule is very different.

 

[NoJoy]

So if I understand this right; 16straight days on, then 12 days off in a row. Is there any days off during the 16 days on? That's a long time to be away. One thing that could work though, is that pilots could commute-on their own dime-to their domicle and only have to do this once a month. How many pilots actually commute though to domicle?