FlexJet and a slow death.

[CALRepublic]

Directional Capital and Flexjet reps flew into Atlanta's PDK airport this past week for meetings. Sounds like Ken Ricci wants Flex. If it happens and they merge it doesn't sound good for the Flexjet pilots who are non-union.

WOW that's really bad for the FX guys.... as if getting stapled to the bottom of a seniority list wasn't bad enough but FLOPS'???

SERENITY NOW

 

[Propilot77]

Directional Capital and Flexjet reps flew into Atlanta's PDK airport this past week for meetings. Sounds like Ken Ricci wants Flex. If it happens and they merge it doesn't sound good for the Flexjet pilots who are non-union.

OK Here we go!!!! If it's not Netjets buying Flex now its FLOPS. Come on now!!!

 

[hammer2]

WOW that's really bad for the FX guys.... as if getting stapled to the bottom of a seniority list wasn't bad enough but FLOPS'???

SERENITY NOW

No kidding! Understand Options treated the Raytheon pilots very bad.

 

[fugazi]

Signature PDK - call them and ask them yourself.


Can you see the trend with manufacturers running programs?

Raytheon's Travel Air - Gone

Cessna's Citation Air - Going

Bombardier Flexjet - Next

Yeah, Signature PDK knows it all! You're a tool!

 

[fugazi]

WOW that's really bad for the FX guys.... as if getting stapled to the bottom of a seniority list wasn't bad enough but FLOPS'???

SERENITY NOW

But on the bright side, itll be really good for flops..we are paid at least 30% more than them. Coupled with that truckers union it'll be better than NetJunk.

 

[jetwash]

But on the bright side, itll be really good for flops..we are paid at least 30% more than them. Coupled with that truckers union it'll be better than NetJunk.

The rumor is that it might be just under the Directional Capital umbrella of companies and not merged.
Such is the case of Nextant, Sentient, Spinaker, Constant Aviation and Jose's Taco Shack.

If they are merged the aircraft and customer would go to Flight Opts and the pilots to Jose's Taco Shack.

 

[rsm]

It appears Flex has to be either sold or dissolved. They (Bombardier) can't be in competition with NetJets, part of the deal with all the new airplanes NetJets just bought. So it seems they will just sell the airplanes to a different entity and hopefully offer Flex pilots and FA's jobs. Maybe?!!?!? Sucks as Flex was a awesome place to work.

 

[ProFracPilot]

The rumor is that it might be just under the Directional Capital umbrella of companies and not merged.

Our Section 1 protections aren't rock solid, but I don't think KCR could get away with doing this. Then again, he may be looking to challenge scope.

 

[Praetorian]

The rumor is that it might be just under the Directional Capital umbrella of companies and not merged.
Such is the case of Nextant, Sentient, Spinaker, Constant Aviation and Jose's Taco Shack.

If they are merged the aircraft and customer would go to Flight Opts and the pilots to Jose's Taco Shack.

The only way they could do that is if they operated it as a strictly charter business. Pesky parallel operations clause in Scope.

 

[Praetorian]

WOW that's really bad for the FX guys.... as if getting stapled to the bottom of a seniority list wasn't bad enough but FLOPS'???

SERENITY NOW

What's your issue with Flight Options?

Btw, the word "FLOPS" is the equivalent of "nuttjets" in the view of many of us that work at Flight Options.

Also, I don't think the IBT merger policy stipulates a "staple".

 

[CALRepublic]

What's my issue with flops? Are you telling me you don't have any issues with "nuttjets"? I bet you have several, most corporate pilots do

I also used the word "staple", but if you take another look I didn't start that, i was quoting someone else

 

[Praetorian]

What's my issue with flops? Are you telling me you don't have any issues with "nuttjets"? I bet you have several, most corporate pilots do

I also used the word "staple", but if you take another look I didn't start that, i was quoting someone else

Actually, I don't have any issues with NJ. I think it would be a great place to work. First and foremost, for me, they have a Union, also, industry leading contract, the strength of Berkshire backing them up...

So answer my question, what's your issue with, ahem, Flight Options?

 

[Praetorian]

It appears Flex has to be either sold or dissolved. They (Bombardier) can't be in competition with NetJets, part of the deal with all the new airplanes NetJets just bought.

There it is. Right there. Same can be said of CA. Although I think it's more accurate to say they just can't do frac/jet card. Nothing stoping either of these companies from competing in the charter market. But frac/jet card is much more profitable.

Understanding this is key to understanding how the Frac industry is evolving right now. Can't even scapegoat the union at Flex.

 

[pilotyip]

Looks like the Fractional Ownership model is under pressure due to shifting customer preferences. Much like the Blockbuster Video Rental Chain, great in its day but over come by shifting markets forces and customer preferences.

 

[CALRepublic]

Actually, I don't have any issues with NJ. I think it would be a great place to work. First and foremost, for me, they have a Union, also, industry leading contract, the strength of Berkshire backing them up...

So answer my question, what's your issue with, ahem, Flight Options?

No no big issues. I've heard is not a good place to work, pay is low, guys getting furloughed base on aircraft not seniority, the company not matching the 401K.

I've flown with a few guys that came from there, they tell me the stories. Not impressed with the place. Ofcourse is all hearsay, I don't have firm evidence to back that up if that's what your asking

Also the 3 people that I've flown with that came from flops are all senior to me, meaning they've been here at NJA at least 10 years. My information is old, but sounds like is accurate?

 

[OHGOON]

I would say ancient info and not very accurate. Options has a Union contract and things are looking up.

 

[Praetorian]

No no big issues. I've heard is not a good place to work, pay is low, guys getting furloughed base on aircraft not seniority, the company not matching the 401K.

I've flown with a few guys that came from there, they tell me the stories. Not impressed with the place. Ofcourse is all hearsay, I don't have firm evidence to back that up if that's what your asking

Also the 3 people that I've flown with that came from flops are all senior to me, meaning they've been here at NJA at least 10 years. My information is old, but sounds like is accurate?

Yea there's no doubt we had a knock down, drag out fight with with management at Flight Options 2006-2010. Probably worse than the one you guys had prior to 05. All I can say is, what a difference life is with a CBA. Night and day different.

Talk to current pilots.

 

[gunfyter]

All I can say is, what a difference life is with a CBA. Night and day different.

:beer:

 

[luckydog]

It appears Flex has to be either sold or dissolved. They (Bombardier) can't be in competition with NetJets, part of the deal with all the new airplanes NetJets just bought. So it seems they will just sell the airplanes to a different entity and hopefully offer Flex pilots and FA's jobs. Maybe?!!?!? Sucks as Flex was a awesome place to work.

Does anyone really believe this or is this a great way to extend another useless FI thread?

 

[captold]

Cba

I have to agree with Praetorian, having a CBA makes all the difference in the world. Non union pilots don't have a clue.

The difference is simple, "at will" employees verses those protected by making the company prove "just cause." The union will provide a defence for a charge against a pilot until the company can prove just cause in disciplining a pilot up to termination. An "at will" employee has NO protection from management, period.

Wake up you company coolaid drinkers. You have absolutely no protection without a union. If you think the company cares about you, I have a bridge for sale at a good price. Favors and good deeds last up to the moment they are completed and forgotten immediatley. Screw up once and it is NEVER forgotten. DUH!!!!!

 

[gret]

I have to agree with Praetorian, having a CBA makes all the difference in the world. Non union pilots don't have a clue.

The difference is simple, "at will" employees verses those protected by making the company prove "just cause." The union will provide a defence for a charge against a pilot until the company can prove just cause in disciplining a pilot up to termination. An "at will" employee has NO protection from management, period.

Wake up you company coolaid drinkers. You have absolutely no protection without a union. If you think the company cares about you, I have a bridge for sale at a good price. Favors and good deeds last up to the moment they are completed and forgotten immediatley. Screw up once and it is NEVER forgotten. DUH!!!!!

Thank you Mr. 7 posts. This is really good information! We would have never figured this out without your enlightenment. Of course you agree with Praetorian...one has to wonder why however.

This will help me in my career as a cross dressing juggler...I think...I will talk to my wife and get her opinion and report back.

 

[G4dude]

Looks like the Fractional Ownership model is under pressure due to shifting customer preferences. Much like the Blockbuster Video Rental Chain, great in its day but over come by shifting markets forces and customer preferences.

I think the fractional model is fine, it is the economy that is the culprit. And, due to the economics of scale, NJA is really hard to compete with. Even though we have a union, it behaves in a reasonable fashion, which is good. Wouldn't it be loverly to see lower corporate and cap gains and personal income tax rates? Sigh. The economy would be so much more robust.

 

[dime line]

I think the fractional model is fine, it is the economy that is the culprit. And, due to the economics of scale, NJA is really hard to compete with. Even though we have a union, it behaves in a reasonable fashion, which is good. Wouldn't it be loverly to see lower corporate and cap gains and personal income tax rates? Sigh. The economy would be so much more robust.

Your talking normal here, wow!

 

[gunfyter]

Your talking normal here, wow!

:beer:

 

[doylehargraves]

I'm not at Flex anymore but, talked to a couple of Flex guys on the left coast the other day and it seems there is never anything good to say. Always the worry of an uncertain future and a last minute management style seems to take its toll on the workers there. Never realized how much that negative environment affected me until I retired from there. It's sad that charter flying is more fun than that place. I really feel sorry for those having to listen to the garb from the D.O. on down. I felt like I was bathing in someone else's dirty water.

 

[warlord19]

Aah, I love Springtime. Flowers emerging, squirrels scratching, and the Spring call for the poor, ignorant, unwashed mass at Flex to unionize. and now our bud Doyle has also emerged, to...what...spread crap about his former employer? Doyle, i hope you found a descent shower to get clean again. But shouldn't you move on?
WL

 

[gret]

Aah, I love Springtime. Flowers emerging, squirrels scratching, and the Spring call for the poor, ignorant, unwashed mass at Flex to unionize. and now our bud Doyle has also emerged, to...what...spread crap about his former employer? Doyle, i hope you found a descent shower to get clean again. But shouldn't you move on?
WL

Disagree a bit. I have found doylehargraves a decent human being based on his posts. Could be wrong...but don't think so.

 

[fugazi]

I'm not at Flex anymore but, talked to a couple of Flex guys on the left coast the other day and it seems there is never anything good to say. Always the worry of an uncertain future and a last minute management style seems to take its toll on the workers there. Never realized how much that negative environment affected me until I retired from there. It's sad that charter flying is more fun than that place. I really feel sorry for those having to listen to the garb from the D.O. on down. I felt like I was bathing in someone else's dirty water.

Nice..Go ahead and chalk that up to a lesson learned.

 

[doylehargraves]

Aah, I love Springtime. Flowers emerging, squirrels scratching, and the Spring call for the poor, ignorant, unwashed mass at Flex to unionize. and now our bud Doyle has also emerged, to...what...spread crap about his former employer? Doyle, i hope you found a descent shower to get clean again. But shouldn't you move on?
WL

Spread crap? Don't bend my words little friend. I'm NOT spreading anything, just speaking the truth of what sentiment your pilots tell me on the road. Trust me, I've moved on but would like to see Flexjet succeed. My point was that I used to make fun of charter operators because I thought they were shady overworked outfits but; now I realize that I was already in that category to a degree and, the place I fly for now was on that list but, I'm happier than I've ever been in a smaller airplane. The severance was a good barometer of the ignominy of that place; but, I'll take my money and see the ocean every day while you sit on your hands and lurk here to take pop shots at people that want to strive and do good. Did you ever think that maybe there is always union talk because there is a lack of good leadership, instead of employees just whining and complaining as you like to point out?

 

[DirtyBeech]

We're recalling/hiring in case anyone had any further doubts about our early demise.