FlexJet and a slow death.

[rsm]

And better than 3....

 

[hammer2]

And better than 3....

My severe case of Learjet a$$ is telling me 10 would have been better.

 

[flexpilot]

How many recalls to AA?

 

[pilotyip]

How many recalls to AA?

Chatting with a AA pilot on a flight last week, he told me there are 40 recalls per month in class, and there are 1200 pilots who have not accepted recall. He said by November everyone who has expressed a desire to return should be back on the payroll. He indicated in November the 1200 will be given one last shot at accepting a return before hiring off the street starts. Also heard that Express Jet had a 100% no show for a class last week.

 

[Pervis]

.He indicated in November the 1200 will be given one last shot at accepting a return before hiring off the street starts.

An AA collegue of mine explained those that turned down the recall have 3 years from the date of the most junior pilot recalled, which happened last week.

 

[NoJoy]

100% no show? Damn is that sending a message or what-

 

[OHGOON]

An AA collegue of mine explained those that turned down the recall have 3 years from the date of the most junior pilot recalled, which happened last week.

That is right. It's contractually spelled out that way and anyone who flies for AA knows this cold. It also has nothing to do with when AA actually starts hiring new bodies, which is rumored to begin this summer with newbie classes in the fall.

YIP is wrong as usual...

 

[fugazi]

Dude, while our pay does suck, you realize that those on the 15/13 schedule (no 14/14...get your facts straight before throwing rocks) bid for that schedule, right? Don't want to work doubles? then don't bid for it! It's that simple.

Yep,throwing rocks from my glass house again..My fault on the facts.

 

[hammer2]

Bump...

 

[DirtyBeech]

You had to bump it 'cause none of us have the time to post. 12-14 hours days is the new normal. Appreciation tokens for all.

 

[GooseHZ]

somework rules spelled out in a CBA would help that.

 

[luckydog]

somework rules spelled out in a CBA would help that.

Thanks for the clever reply, we'll get right on that.

 

[Praetorian]

Honest question. Why do you think the Flex pilots are the last of the fractional pilot groups the unionize?

 

[fugazi]

Honest question. Why do you think the Flex pilots are the last of the fractional pilot groups the unionize?

Basically, you're saying..if everyone else is jumping of a cliff why aren't we? Dude, we had our chance and that ship has sailed. Time will tell if we made a poor decision. I personally would have voted for Pedro.

 

[Praetorian]

Basically, you're saying..if everyone else is jumping of a cliff why aren't we? Dude, we had our chance and that ship has sailed. Time will tell if we made a poor decision. I personally would have voted for Pedro.

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking. It seems to me you guys have never even had a union drive. Why is that? Are they treating you great?

 

[fugazi]

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking. It seems to me you guys have never even had a union drive. Why is that? Are they treating you great?

Haha..no theyre not! But, theyre not treating us horribly either. They seem to know how to manipulate the pilot group to piss you off but not enough pull that union trigger. Morale is slipping at a great rate amongst the FO group. I predict a mass exodus when airline hiring picks up.

 

[Praetorian]

Morale is slipping at a great rate amongst the FO group. I predict a mass exodus when airline hiring picks up.

That should help your management out. They can go get new ones for cheaper wages.

 

[fugazi]

That should help your management out. They can go get new ones for cheaper wages.

At this point it's a QOL issue..at the top for me,last day rules. Don't get me wrong, Im grateful to have a good job. We are making money and recalling pilots, it could be worse. You're so interested in our situation..why not tell us why yours is so much better and, give me/us some advice on how you made a difference?

 

[Praetorian]

At this point it's a QOL issue..at the top for me,last day rules. Don't get me wrong, Im grateful to have a good job. We are making money and recalling pilots, it could be worse. You're so interested in our situation..why not tell us why yours is so much better and, give me/us some advice on how you made a difference?

You know it's funny, I actually had this document open on my computer, because I was looking something up for a friend, when I came across your reply to my post.

My only advice is that you need a contract, with language in it like this below. Otherwise you will always be at the mercy of what your management decides to do on a given day.

19.8 Last Work Day Scheduling
A pilot not returned to his Crew Base or Domicile by 0130 local time on his first scheduled day off, for reasons outside his control, shall be paid one extended day. In addition, the pilot?s starting time on his next scheduled work day shall be no earlier than the time he returned to his base on his first scheduled day off.

19.8(a) A pilot returning after 1200 local on his first scheduled day off shall be relieved from duty on the first scheduled work day of his next tour. Pilots are not required to exceed maximum duty period limitations in order to meet the last work day schedule. If a pilot volunteers to exceed 14 hours of duty on his last scheduled work day for the sole purpose of returning to his Crew Base or Domicile, and the travel results in 16 or more hours of duty, he shall receive one Extended Day (this Extended Day shall not be in addition to an Extended Day for arriving home after 0130). However, pilots are otherwise required to make reasonable efforts to fulfill the Company schedule. The parties shall continue to follow current practices regarding proof of arrival time.

19.8(a)(1) A pilot who is released from all duty except travel duty to his Crew Base or Domicile beginning at or before the eighth consecutive hour of duty on his last work day, and who could be returned to his Crew Base or Domicile by 0130 on his first scheduled day off (based on airline estimated time of arrival at the time of departure or MapQuest drive time for ground transportation) but for Section 28 minimum rest requirements, shall not be eligible for the work day elimination accommodation set forth in subsection 19.8(a) unless he waives Section 28 minimum rest requirements. If a pilot waives Section 28 rest requirements, time spent in travel to his Crew Base or Domicile shall be added to previous duty time for purposes of compensation.

19.8(b) Subsection 19.8 shall apply with respect to returns after 0130 local time on the pilot?s first scheduled day off and each consecutive scheduled day off thereafter.

19.8(c) If the first day of the next tour is a scheduled training event and the Company would be required to provide either (1) time off; or (2) a complete day off pursuant to the application of subsection 19.8, but does not because it would interfere with the pilot?s training, the pilot shall attend the training event (including travel) and receive one extended day in lieu of time off.

19.8(d) A pilot not returned to his base by 0130 local time on his first scheduled day off, for reasons outside his control, shall be provided with the first available normally used mode of transportation (e.g., airline, sedan with driver, rental car or taxi) scheduled to return the pilot to his base at the earliest time, consistent with his rest period limitations. Section 28 duty start times shall apply unless waived by the pilot.

 

[DirtyBeech]

At this point it's a QOL issue..at the top for me,last day rules. Don't get me wrong, Im grateful to have a good job. We are making money and recalling pilots, it could be worse. You're so interested in our situation..why not tell us why yours is so much better and, give me/us some advice on how you made a difference?

It's a good job that's grimly determined not to be great. We talk about being great, but as for actual actions to bring about that greatness? Well, I see captains AND fo's voting with their feet to try the 121 world again. You think the industry leaders in big cargo, 121, or the frac world are having that problem? I highly doubt it. That's because they are the best places to work. It's all QOL for me too. I'll accept the lower earnings and harder work if I'm treated very well.

Mgt. doesn't have to worry about a CBA. The pilot group lacks the wherewithal to bring one about. They have no incentive to make it better, and high ranking members of our mgt. have no idea what goes on on the line. I know for a fact that the new VP and Prez had no idea about 16 hour go home days, and the second in command of HR didn't know what recurrent training was until just a few weeks ago. Total disconnect. Not intentional or willful, they just don't know, and Lord knows we're not allowed to discuss it on yammer.

I'd copy and paste the Praetorian's last day work rules and send them to the latest iteration of the CAB/FOFG/Whatever the Hell They're Called Now, if I thought it would do any good. It won't.

I think I'm about to vote with my feet too. No amount of praise tokens will make up for our substandard work rules.