FLASH, This just in,...NWA and DAL pilots

[FDJ2]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
The real kicker would be if these announcements and aircraft are actually being planned already for the combined carrier. think about it

You are very wise young grasshoppa.

You sure you are a pilot?

Just like the 787s?

These orders have been on the books for some time now.

 

[DTW320]

Ouch, that is an old fleet. 17.5 years old. Look at the bright side, once all your DC-9s are gone your average fleet age will be just north of 11.1.

Do you have any replacement aircraft on order for those aging DC-9s? Why replace immediately. They are paid for and make money.

What's the average age of your 747-200s. 25? Yes! All 13 of them.

What's the average age of your 747-400s. 15? Nope...14....as in younger than your
767-300's(avg age= 16.9) 757-200's(avg age=16.3) and your entire MD88 fleet (avg age=17.5)

Good thing you got the last of your A330s in there to drive your average down. Yeah, right along with our A319's/320's and 757-300's, all of which are younger than your MD88's. Our 757-200's are exactly the same average age as yours....but you have more of them which hurts your average. Yes our A330's(largest fleet in the world) are less than half as old as your 767-400's and 777's.We'll be taking delivery of 22 new aircraft through 2009, that should help us out.

SeeYa!

 

[DTW320]

You really need to get more creative....I guess you fail to recognize your chp 11 trip, which resulted in much poorer pay and work rules! Reading comprehension. Ya see, I talked about the future. Not the past. Get it?
I guess to expect more from some fng greenbook lacky is too much!


Or we buy you, and rescue you from another trip into bankruptcy!Ummmm. let's just say that the financials(those things you like to ignore) suggest otherwise. I guess they didn't teach you about those at Vo-Tech.


This from the punk who has the reading comprehension?:laugh: Sparky, you are really funny!:laugh:


Sure you are greenbook!
Come on junior greenbook......Gear up now!

737

See Ya Punkylouver!!

 

[DTW320]

Hey look everyone, it is NORTHWEST to the rescue!!! They will come in with their stellar financials and rescue anyone who MAY have some trouble down the road(even though Air France would EASILY do the same for us in a heartbeat). How does NWA do it? They took most of it from the NWA pilots during their BK. Yes, they kept their pensions, but lost everything else. But hey, if you need a loan, go to them first!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Just so I'm clear: Your and DAL's answer to their lousy numbers(margins/cash on hand as a multiple of monthly expense/and massive debt) and forecast massive losses at current oil prices (4 times NWA forecast losses)is to ask the Frogs for money?

Wow. Thats a grand plan ya got there BobbyLee!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[General Lee]

Just so I'm clear: Your and DAL's answer to their lousy numbers(margins/cash on hand as a multiple of monthly expense/and massive debt) and forecast massive losses at current oil prices (4 times NWA forecast losses)is to ask the Frogs for money?

Wow. Thats a grand plan ya got there BobbyLee!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

And for some reason your MEC keeps coming back for more. Why is that minibus man? With all of this doom and gloom you say we WILL have (none of our management people seemed as stressed out about it as you are), why oh why do your guys want to call us back? Go away and stay in your ice caves you HOSERS.

And, those frogs also own KLM, your key to Europe (since you don't have anything else except DUS and a few major cities there). Be nice. And yes, they will help us if we somehow need it. Enjoy those great financials---instead of pilot pay. If you personally need a loan, call me--25% interest compounded daily, but that is because you are my hoser buddy from the great white north.(otherwise--it is 30%)

And, I can't believe you are trying to compare fleet ages. Wow. Most of your domestic fleet is older than most of our employees (except the stews).


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

While you're at it, PLEASE, PLEASE, take a look at the index of a high and low chart. Learn how to read those again. Also, review SID/STARs. Do you guys on the DC9 have to file your own flight plans too? I hope not.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Echo, Echo, Echo~~BORING=LAME=GL

:uzi: GL :smash:

Get some new material, "yawn"

 

[General Lee]

Echo, Echo, Echo~~BORING=LAME=GL

:uzi: GL :smash:

Get some new material, "yawn"

Come on man, I am giving you some advice here, some that you will need. Really, you won't have the FMS "crutch" everyone else has out there, so you will have to be ontop of your game. 5 legs in one day will get tiring, and if you are in top form, less can happen to you. Good luck and God Speed.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

Come on man, I am giving you some advice here, some that you will need. Really, you won't have the FMS "crutch" everyone else has out there, so you will have to be ontop of your game. 5 legs in one day will get tiring, and if you are in top form, less can happen to you. Good luck and God Speed.


Bye Bye--General Lee

TOOLBOX AWARD, congrats you earned it :erm:

 

[Redmeat]

These orders have been on the books for some time now.

Yes.

But...some might speculate that they CONTINUE to be on the books because oh...I don't know...somebody's got a plan?

Let's use logic for a sec kay?

Despite almost insurmountable oil prices, a looming recession, and an ever weakening dollar, both airlines are keeping there expansion aircraft orders.

The first sentence of Airline 101 reads 'If you smell trouble on the economic horizon...shrink the operation.

We did that very early in 2000 (everyone said WTF?)

We are not retiring any additional AC than was planned during the BK exit (despite a VASTLY different economic scenario), our AC orders have not changed.

Neither has Deltoids. So you think two Legacy carriers are defying industry precedence simultaneously with all the eggs on the line based on their hypothetical yet unproven 'stand alone plans'?

Not likely.

 

[Noserider76]

Yes.

But...some might speculate that they CONTINUE to be on the books because oh...I don't know...somebody's got a plan?

Let's use logic for a sec kay?

Despite almost insurmountable oil prices, a looming recession, and an ever weakening dollar, both airlines are keeping there expansion aircraft orders.

The first sentence of Airline 101 reads 'If you smell trouble on the economic horizon...shrink the operation.

We did that very early in 2000 (everyone said WTF?)

We are not retiring any additional AC than was planned during the BK exit (despite a VASTLY different economic scenario), our AC orders have not changed.

Neither has Deltoids. So you think two Legacy carriers are defying industry precedence simultaneously with all the eggs on the line based on their hypothetical yet unproven 'stand alone plans'?

Not likely.

Most of the other carriers, with the exception of UAL and DL, haven't made any real announcements of changing their business model yet. Those will come in time if oil stays where it is or gets more expensive. I wouldn't read too much into the fact orders haven't changed or more aircraft haven't been grounded yet.

My opinion is that the merger is dead or put in deep, deep storage because of fuel prices and the economy. If you merge two giants you have to appease a multitude of entities while it's in the approval process. That means very limited cuts, if any, for months. I don't think management wants to tie their own hands that way with a huge amount of uncertainty on the horizon.

Secondly, the merger won't pay dividends for quite a while. It might give you a bit of pricing power but won't do anything to the price of oil and it won't increase demand for your product. In the mean time it's very expensive right off the bat with integration expenses and higher employee costs to name a few.

Lastly, the financial markets are a mess. Circumstances could have changed dramatically for the sponsors of the deal.

The fact that the company took some of the bennies off the table speaks volumes. They are re-evaluating the deal and working to get their own house in order in the face of some serious industry challenges.

 

[Redmeat]

The fact that the company took some of the bennies off the table speaks volumes. They are re-evaluating the deal and working to get their own house in order in the face of some serious industry challenges.

I disagree.

I think at some point ALL 'bennies' will be off the table as management reimburses itself for being forced to do the work of waiting for an arbitrator to integrate 10,000 egomaniacs.

What do you think will happen to NW, DL stock when a merger is announced? Does the phrase thru the roof ring a bell?

That means cheap borrowing power my brother...and that is what will be needed to get to the other side of the current/future economic situation.

 

[SplitBar]

Just how small is the Generals Penis? If I were a Vegas odds maker I would offer the following lines.

Penis under 3 inches -300
Bald -570
Non Delta Pilot -1500
Height under 5-7 -650
No chick -2500
Picked on in High School -900
Never kissed a girl -3000
40 Year old Virgin -5000

 

[DTW320]

And for some reason your MEC keeps coming back for more. Why is that minibus man? With all of this doom and gloom you say we WILL have (none of our management people seemed as stressed out about it as you are), why oh why do your guys want to call us back? Go away and stay in your ice caves you HOSERS.

And, those frogs also own KLM, your key to Europe (since you don't have anything else except DUS and a few major cities there). Be nice. And yes, they will help us if we somehow need it. Enjoy those great financials---instead of pilot pay. If you personally need a loan, call me--25% interest compounded daily, but that is because you are my hoser buddy from the great white north.(otherwise--it is 30%)

And, I can't believe you are trying to compare fleet ages. Wow. Most of your domestic fleet is older than most of our employees (except the stews).


Bye Bye--General Lee

Oh OK. Back to name calling huh? That thing you say people do when they can't debate? That's cool. Would you care to debate the fleet age numbers? You know, the ones that show our airlines are only 5 years apart in average fleet age? Go ahead RobertE...dispute any fleet numbers I stated.

I know that factual numbers scare you and don't mesh with your little fantasy world of vast DAL superiority that you've conjured up in your head so successfully.

You should read 10k's as closely as you read other airline's timetables. You'd come off a whole lot smarter than you do.

PS. Thanks for the loan offer, but I would never borrow money from someone with such a poor grasp of finance. At least Fins has an MBA, but alas, he's resigning......

BTW, you got totally OWNED by FmrFreightDog earlier today over here and ran away from that thread in record time. Yet you claim to always respond. Hilarious.

 

[jester757]

Fact...from the source. IF the merger had gone through the nines would have come to ATL and been put on any route DAL runs against value jet and there is currently some RJ on it- fact. The 747 freighters would have been parked - fact. Why run them when the DHL contract with NWA is dead...that was 55% of the revenue on that operation.

Now DAL is going back to plan A - the go alone modified to run at 105 a barrel oil. IF the plan works DAL will turn a modest profit. This is the stand alone plan... even managment sees a merger is a bad deal right now. Why push the issue. Wouldn't it just be easier to do it IF the rumors of furlough come true at NWA? For the guys at NWA I truly hope this is just a rumor - been furloughed...hated it. There are NO plans to furlough at DAL, none. Plan is train for the 777s after the summer flying and not back fill these positions until pilots are needed for the next summer push - that means hiring again in the fall-winter.

Bottom line...the pilots can talk all they want - but if mgmt does want the merger right now it is not going to happen. And by far the majority of the DAL pilots don't want the merger (and can vote down anything that DALPA puts out) it would take years to get the mess straightend out. It would be too little too late.

I would bet on DAL or NWA buying a smaller airline or just buying routes. Easier and it has a better return on the investment without the headaches.

I think both pilot goups will be better off on their own. Take a lesson from our amigos at USAir.

 

[Noserider76]

What do you think will happen to NW, DL stock when a merger is announced? Does the phrase thru the roof ring a bell?

Why? It was to be a stock swap not a buyout.

 

[johnsonrod]

Fact...from the source. IF the merger had gone through the nines would have come to ATL and been put on any route DAL runs against value jet and there is currently some RJ on it- fact. The 747 freighters would have been parked - fact. Why run them when the DHL contract with NWA is dead...that was 55% of the revenue on that operation.

Now DAL is going back to plan A - the go alone modified to run at 105 a barrel oil. IF the plan works DAL will turn a modest profit. This is the stand alone plan... even managment sees a merger is a bad deal right now. Why push the issue. Wouldn't it just be easier to do it IF the rumors of furlough come true at NWA? For the guys at NWA I truly hope this is just a rumor - been furloughed...hated it. There are NO plans to furlough at DAL, none. Plan is train for the 777s after the summer flying and not back fill these positions until pilots are needed for the next summer push - that means hiring again in the fall-winter.

Bottom line...the pilots can talk all they want - but if mgmt does want the merger right now it is not going to happen. And by far the majority of the DAL pilots don't want the merger (and can vote down anything that DALPA puts out) it would take years to get the mess straightend out. It would be too little too late.

I would bet on DAL or NWA buying a smaller airline or just buying routes. Easier and it has a better return on the investment without the headaches.

I think both pilot goups will be better off on their own. Take a lesson from our amigos at USAir.[/quote]

Amen to that. However, if USAirways and AWA had not merged, USAirways (the original) would most likely be liquidated by now... Although the USAirways Easties would never admit that.

 

[Superpilot92]

Fact...from the source. IF the merger had gone through the nines would have come to ATL and been put on any route DAL runs against value jet and there is currently some RJ on it- fact. The 747 freighters would have been parked - fact. Why run them when the DHL contract with NWA is dead...that was 55% of the revenue on that operation. Buddy of mine on the freighters said that the DHL contract isnt gone anymore. Maybe someone can confirm this as true or false. Thanks DTW320 for the link http://www.americanshipper.com/news/news_intl_story.asp?news=87165

Now DAL is going back to plan A - the go alone modified to run at 105 a barrel oil. IF the plan works DAL will turn a modest profit. This is the stand alone plan... even managment sees a merger is a bad deal right now. Why push the issue. Wouldn't it just be easier to do it IF the rumors of furlough come true at NWA? Rumors of furloughs?? Must be some rumor you DAL guys are starting because we have heard of NO such thing. There are NO plans for furlough at NWA, NONE. In fact where you stopped classes we are still currently running them. For the guys at NWA I truly hope this is just a rumor - been furloughed...hated it. There are NO plans to furlough at DAL, none. Plan is train for the 777s after the summer flying and not back fill these positions until pilots are needed for the next summer push - that means hiring again in the fall-winter.

Bottom line...the pilots can talk all they want - but if mgmt does want the merger right now it is not going to happen. And by far the majority of the DAL pilots don't want the merger (and can vote down anything that DALPA puts out) it would take years to get the mess straightend out. It would be too little too late.

I would bet on DAL or NWA buying a smaller airline or just buying routes. Easier and it has a better return on the investment without the headaches.

I think both pilot goups will be better off on their own. Take a lesson from our amigos at USAir I agree but i think mgmt will try it either way.

imp:

 

[Redmeat]

Why? It was to be a stock swap not a buyout.

Apples and Oranges.

Stock swap is internal.

Wall Street determines the value of the stock...hence the value of the airline.

 

[DTW320]

Fact...from the source. IF the merger had gone through the nines would have come to ATL and been put on any route DAL runs against value jet and there is currently some RJ on it- fact. Hadn't heard that one. All the usual suspects here have said the -9's would be parked. The 747 freighters would have been parked - fact. Why run them when the DHL contract with NWA is dead...that was 55% of the revenue on that operation. Not a Fact. DHL agreement still intact. Read about it here. Besides, a lot of the NRT slots are tied to the freighters and Cargo brought in just shy of $1Billion in Revenue last year and is one product that can reliably pass the cost of fuel on to the customer.

Now DAL is going back to plan A - the go alone modified to run at 105 a barrel oil. IF the plan works DAL will turn a modest profit. Merrill Lynch says at $100/barrel DAL loses $260M this year. At $110/barrel they lose $579M. Interpolated $105/barrel = $420M Loss.This is the stand alone plan... even managment sees a merger is a bad deal right now. Why push the issue. Wouldn't it just be easier to do it IF the rumors of furlough come true at NWA? For the guys at NWA I truly hope this is just a rumor - been furloughed...hated it. There are NO plans to furlough at DAL, none. Plan is train for the 777s after the summer flying and not back fill these positions until pilots are needed for the next summer push - that means hiring again in the fall-winter.

Bottom line...the pilots can talk all they want - but if mgmt does want the merger right now it is not going to happen. And by far the majority of the DAL pilots don't want the merger (and can vote down anything that DALPA puts out) it would take years to get the mess straightend out. It would be too little too late.

I would bet on DAL or NWA buying a smaller airline or just buying routes. Easier and it has a better return on the investment without the headaches.

I think both pilot goups will be better off on their own. Take a lesson from our amigos at USAir.

Otherwise Agree.:beer:

 

[Diesel-9]

Airlines' 2008 estimated net income or loss (), in millions, if crude oil prices average these amounts per barrel for the year:

Airline $75 $95 $100 $110

Alaska $104 $14 -$9 -$54

American $797 -$538 -$872 -$1,539

Continental $444 -$12 -$126 -$354

Delta $538 -$100 -$260 -$579

Northwest $488 $43 -$69 -$291

United $540 -$116 -$280 -$609

Total majors $2,913 -$709 $-1,615 -$3,426