FLASH, This just in,...NWA and DAL pilots

[737 Pylt]

Happy to see them merge and get that stock price up. It's going to happen and will be good for everybody involved.
Ticket prices will go up, stock will go up and MSP will soon be seeing 777's flying out to exotic destinations. Buddy of mine at Boeing, who works in the 777 Dept, said they were up in MSP checking things out. Things that make you go hmmmm?

:laugh: :laugh:
Thanks for the laugh chuck.....Like you have any buddies!:laugh: :laugh:

737

 

[General Lee]

Airline Merger Talks Continue Wednesday - March 26, 2008 - 05:00 AM CT

Pilots at Northwest Airlines and Delta Air Lines revived discussions on resolving differences in merging their contracts, a step necessary for the carriers to proceed with a merger proposal.

The meetings have purportedly involved a handful of senior pilots and are not formal negotiations. It is unclear whether the group has made any progress.

Pilot unions, both affiliated with the Air Line Pilots Association, would not say whether any new meetings had been held. The airlines have refused to comment on union developments.

Managements of Delta and Northwest approached the pilots last month to see if they could sort out union-related contractual issues before a deal was proposed to the government and the companies' respective boards and shareholders.

Pilots at both airlines have said there would be no merger without the cooperation of the pilots and have been wrangling over how to combine seniority lists. Seniority is crucial for determining what planes and routes pilots fly and when they work. Negotiations ended nearly two weeks ago without a deal, dousing expectations that the airlines would strike a quick merger agreement.
—New York Times

This has to be the General grabbing any senior NWA pilot he can find on his layover and telling them how great it would be for them if Delta took over their "little" airline.

I honestly would prefer not to have us merge. Nah, no thanks. If we do, I have a feeling our side will have gotten what it "wants", and the NWA MEC will have crumbled, actually understanding that relative seniority is the way to go. Repeat out loud "THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW." Thanks.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Wait, weren't you listening? The General doesn't lower himself to laying over in the cities where Northwest pilots lay over. He spends his nights in Rio and Vienna. *Yawn*

You forgot a whole list of other cities. We have quite a selection from ATL. It is FANTASTIC.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Muskycat]

Happy to see them merge and get that stock price up. It's going to happen and will be good for everybody involved.
Ticket prices will go up, stock will go up and MSP will soon be seeing 777's flying out to exotic destinations. Buddy of mine at Boeing, who works in the 777 Dept, said they were up in MSP checking things out. Things that make you go hmmmm?

The new supersized Airbus passed through MSP as well a few months ago. Big plane! Ugly, but big.

 

[DTW320]

I honestly would prefer not to have us merge. Nah, no thanks. If we do, I have a feeling our side will have gotten what it "wants", and the NWA MEC will have crumbled, actually understanding that relative seniority is the way to go. Repeat out loud "THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW." Thanks.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Ahhh....Clever....laying the CYA groundwork to cover the possibility of a development that will prove you,FDJ2,737Pylt(punkalouver) wrong about everything you have declared as Gospel here. the only reason it will have happened if it does is because NWAALPA crumbled....Got it. Clever little general aren't ya?

 

[General Lee]

Both sides see fuel prices rising, the economy going south, legacies trimming the fleet and are thinking.....

"hey we might as well merge and sacrifice a couple thousand junior pilots in order to keep the airline afloat."

Gup

A couple thousand pilots sacrificed? Only if the DC9s are brought on property. Also, any merger would include no furlough protections, which include high fuel prices.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Ahhh....Clever....laying the CYA groundwork to cover the possibility of a development that will prove you,FDJ2,737Pylt(punkalouver) wrong about everything you have declared as Gospel here. the only reason it will have happened if it does is because NWAALPA crumbled....Got it. Clever little general aren't ya?

CYA? Is that what you have to do during your walk arounds at DTW? You might get shot by M&M types from the "8 mile...." You must love it there.

Hey, I would think FDJ2 knows a bit more than all of us here. He is "close to the action." Anyway, if we do merge, we have won. No SLI without relative seniority. You will be my FO DTW319.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[123]

So if we get to the convention center/Georgia Dome/U.S. Senate late, due to not getting the Batphone call or seeing the giant Widget in the sky, will we still be allowed in?!?

Only if you know the secret code and hand-shake, otherwise, we might be arrested for loitering and obstruction of DAL business.

 

[DTW320]

CYA? Is that what you have to do during your walk arounds at DTW? You might get shot by M&M types from the "8 mile...." You must love it there.

Yes, and "Hartsfield-Jackson-Insert name of dead mayor here" is in such a GREAT part of town!

Hey, I would think FDJ2 knows a bit more than all of us here. He is "close to the action." I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's been a long time since either one of you was "close to the action" Anyway, if we do merge, we have won. No SLI without relative seniority. You will be my FO DTW319. Really? With Relative Seniority? Might want to check your calendar there Robert E. Then again, if you can get me that Batphone code I may just do it!!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Seeya

 

[General Lee]

Not spooked at all. Read what has already been put out long ago. NWAALPA believes that consolidation is inevitable. NWAALPA, unlike DALPA, believes that you don't have as much say as you think you do in whether your Fortune 150 company, and the shareholders,creditors, and BOD (you only have 1 seat), decides to do a merger or not despite soundbites from RA and EB. Show me a legal document that gives DALPA the ability to stop a merger.

Besides, as all knowing as you claim to be, if NWAALPA was hearing something that had them worried I'm sure we would have heard it from you right away.

Cool! Will I get the secret Batphone access code then or will there be some kinda fence on that?

Riiiiiight. Why are you calling again? It is so obvious that something is wrotten over there, and your MEC sees it. Oh yeah, it is INEVITABLE......according to your man Steenland. He wants his payout. (Anderson gave his up)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Notice in the article that at $100/barrel NWA loses 1/4 the amount that DAL does and Jetblue loses more than NWA, even with their fuel efficient fleet.

Is that analysis with or without all of the DC9s? Probably without.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

A couple thousand pilots sacrificed? Only if the DC9s are brought on property. Also, any merger would include no furlough protections, which include high fuel prices.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I guess you're running out of comments or bs assumptions. Why is it that DAL will lose A LOT more money with high oil costs than NWA? If the DC9 is such a money drain on our business plan shouldnt it be the other way around?

 

[Tref]

I'm actually hoping the merger happens after something I heard...

A friend of mine told me he was in a stall next to a Delta pilot and when the guy took a dump it smelled like lavender, no kidding, fresh cut lavender.

He also said that there was this beautiful glow coming from the stall. He said it had was like sunlight, but had all the colors of the rainbow.

Just being around those guys would be worth giving up all your seniority!

 

[General Lee]

I guess you're running out of comments or bs assumptions. Why is it that DAL will lose A LOT more money with high oil costs than NWA? If the DC9 is such a money drain on our business plan shouldnt it be the other way around?

With the INTL expansion going on (and very little new INTL expansion on your side due to lack of new airplanes) we have the ability to gain extra revenue and profits when adding these routes. Each time we add a new route we add a new revenue stream. You guys are replacing your DC9s with CR9s at a record pace. (look at DTW to YUL--all 9s replaced with CR9s)

As far as profits go, our CFO/PRES Ed Bastain stated at the last conference that due to high oil we might be down $100 million by the end of the year, but our cash flow is good and we are doing fine overall. He said we may even squeek out a small profit. We'll see I guess....

If we are such a money loser, then why is your MEC so inclined to put a deal together? Go for a money maker---like AMR . They would love to talk to you guys.


Also, I will NEVER run out of comments.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

Is that analysis with or without all of the DC9s? Probably without.

Bye Bye--General Lee

See it never changes, you spin anything and everything you can to try and justify your BS. Do you really think they said hey lets do this analysis but hey lets pretend NWA parked all DC9s? Get a clue, DAL needs the merger more than NWA thats why DAL started this whole thing. The northwest guys know this is going to happen whether or not DALALPA wants to or not. IF mgmt thinks they need it they are going to push it.

 

[General Lee]

See it never changes, you spin anything and everything you can to try and justify your BS. Do you really think they said hey lets do this analysis but hey lets pretend NWA parked all DC9s? Get a clue, DAL needs the merger more than NWA thats why DAL started this whole thing. The northwest guys know this is going to happen whether or not DALALPA wants to or not. IF mgmt thinks they need it they are going to push it.

We need it more than you? Anderson was FORCED to look into it thanks to the board members originating from the creditor committees. They wanted to maximize their options. Anderson looked into it, and then said unless we get seniority protection, then no way. That is why we started it. Why is your MEC continuing it? That is the real question. I think they know something. What could it be? You answer this one.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

With the INTL expansion going on (and very little new INTL expansion on your side due to lack of new airplanes) we have the ability to gain extra revenue and profits when adding these routes. Each time we add a new route we add a new revenue stream. You guys are replacing your DC9s with CR9s at a record pace. (look at DTW to YUL--all 9s replaced with CR9s) Oh yeah i guess i forgot you DAL guys never gave up any flying you are the last pilot group that needs to be poking sticks about scope. At least we have a cap on our scope clause. Oh i saw a pinnacle crj 900 in iah the other day, It looked sharp in DAL colors :erm: What plane did that replace, oh yeah never mind that used to be a 737 and md88. again get a clue.

As far as profits go, our CFO/PRES Ed Bastain stated at the last conference that due to high oil we might be down $100 million by the end of the year, but our cash flow is good and we are doing fine overall. He said we may even squeek out a small profit. We'll see I guess....everything's just "peachy" huh? Reality is calling!! The industry is going to be seeing a lot of changes coming up and whether you want to admit it or not you guys need the merger more than we do.

If we are such a money loser, then why is your MEC so inclined to put a deal together? Our MEC probably knows its on the horizon either way and we might as well keep talks going so its not completely forced down our throats. If its going to happen regardless wouldnt it be nice to get some money and contract gains out of it for both pilot groups? Go for a money maker---like AMR . They would love to talk to you guys.


Also, I will NEVER run out of comments.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Discuss

 

[On Your Six]

maybe you should be the ones "spooked"

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2008-03-24-jet-fuel-costs_N.htm

sucks for everyone, but it appears more so for DAL. Bottom line the industry is on the verge of being in a world of hurt and maybe the NWA guys are being realists. What would it take for the DAL guys to wake up and realize every thing isn't "peachy"

Realists? Are you sure about that? Then why would you enter a negotiation with such a polarizing, unworkable position in the first place? From an outsider's perspective, I keep seeing NWA wanting to reengage after being rebuffed. Why the need to reengage unless something has changed? I thought you guys said you didn't need Delta to survive and prosper going forward? If so, then why reengage?

You guys are like stalkers saying, "It will be INEVITABLE that you will LOVE ME. Trust me, I am a REALIST..."

 

[Superpilot92]

We need it more than you? Anderson was FORCED to look into it thanks to the board members originating from the creditor committees. They wanted to maximize their options. Anderson looked into it, and then said unless we get seniority protection, then no way. That is why we started it. Why is your MEC continuing it? That is the real question. I think they know something. What could it be? You answer this one. Already answered it in a previous post. The NWA MEC knows that no matter what GL thinks, mgmt will try it anyway if they think they need to or want to. so we might as well keep the talks going so we can come out of this ahead as 1 pilot group. Money, QOL, Job Protection, etc. Or we could continue to fight like children and get nothing out of it and it still gets shoved down our throats.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Do you have any recollection of your beloved Anderson? You have been in the business long enough to know that he doesnt give a shat about your seniority no matter how many times he says it.

 

[400ADude]

Airline $75 $95 $100 $110

Delta $538 $100 $260 $579
Northwest $488 $43 $69 $291

Total majors $2,913 $709 $1,615 $3,426

Delta would lose an ave of 420 mil at $105 per ball.
NWA would lose and ave of 180 mil at $105 per ball.

Looks like Delta needs the merger more. And yeah of course those numbers are with the -9's. Spin Spin Spin.

 

[Superpilot92]

Realists? Are you sure about that? Then why would you enter a negotiation with such a polarizing, unworkable position in the first place? From an outsider's perspective, I keep seeing NWA wanting to reengage after being rebuffed. Why the need to reengage unless something has changed? I thought you guys said you didn't need Delta to survive and prosper going forward? If so, then why reengage?

You guys are like stalkers saying, "It will be INEVITABLE that you will LOVE ME. Trust me, I am a REALIST..."

Well here is the most important aspect, The info i have been presented is almost completely opposite as to what the DAL guys are saying and they say the same from their side. So there is a big disconnect in the real discussions and FI discussions, Go figure.

 

[400ADude]

Well here is the most important aspect, The info i have been presented is almost completely opposite as to what the DAL guys are saying. So there is a big disconnect in the real discussions and FI discussions, Go figure.

Superpilot92,
You do realize that "the DAL guys" you are talking to here on FI, are really one guy with a bunch of usernames.

 

[Superpilot92]

Superpilot92,
You do realize that "the DAL guys" you are talking to here on FI, are really one guy with a bunch of usernames.

probably, thats why i always try to say, "most" dal guys because i know every DAL guy isnt as disconnected from reality as "the DAL guys" from FI are.:nuts:

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am not the one that reported parking the DC 9's but I am curious why your MEC keeps coming back to the table with no change in position.
Don't you think that our position would be a little softer if we had not conferred with our management?
I do not know for sure, but I think that there have been some very frank discussions down here in ATL over all of this.
My take on this is: The NWA MEC thinks we have a gun to our head as we think you have a gun to your head. I am sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, but we are not the ones begging to come back to the table. Are we?

 

[737 Pylt]

Thread hijack about 400ahole.

probably, thats why i always try to say, "most" dal guys because i know every DAL guy isnt as disconnected from reality as "the DAL guys" from FI are.:nuts:

Sorry for the thread hijack......

Superpilot:
Some interesting information for you regarding 400ahole:

He is the same poster who once owned the following screen names:

Chuck Yogurt
Lawman
Einstein
Texas Crotch rot
Boris Yelling
Lame Lizard
Sky fly

If you look at how many times this annoying little prick has been banned under how many different screen names you'll understand his post. Also something of mention. He is currently a f/o for midwest airlines, and has a vested interest in seeing NWA succeed as per your ownership of midwest. He has been furloughed, and turned down by many airlines, and is stuck at midwest.

He also wrote the following comment when US Airways tried thier hostile takeove of DAL.


On 1/13/07 400AHOLE wrote:
Thanks Whiskey! Lets hope this thing goes through sooner than later.
Then on 1/22/07 Mr. 400AHOLE writes:
WD, for your sake and the rest of the America West and USAIr guys I hope this whole thing doesn't go thru.


Hey 400ahole.....YOU JUST GOT OWNED!
737

 

[Superpilot92]

I am not the one that reported parking the DC 9's but I am curious why your MEC keeps coming back to the table with no change in position. I already gave my opinion on that.
Don't you think that our position would be a little softer if we had not conferred with our management?Was that the discussion before your mgmt team announced parking mainline aircraft. Seemed pretty odd that right after Moak gave us the finger, DAL announced parking those planes and cutting jobs.
I do not know for sure, but I think that there have been some very frank discussions down here in ATL over all of this.
My take on this is: The NWA MEC thinks we have a gun to our head as we think you have a gun to your head. I am sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, but we are not the ones begging to come back to the table. Are we? I agree there is a disconnect. In reality and mgmt will probably announce it anyway, forcing us into making a decision. They knew we wouldnt just go into a room, hug and make a joint decision. Like Occam says until there is a deadline nothing will be decided [/quote]


Another point is some discussions have already taken place with CAL and NWA and since NWA holds the Golden share with CAL, NWA probably would attempt a go with CAL if DAL doesnt work. Putting NWA/CAL in a good position. Then DAL will probably try with UAL, Good luck with that. Between the seniority talks and mega debt that would be incurred you guys know you have a much better chance making it and coming ahead with NWA than any other carrier. Then there is AA, you could try that

In all seriousness good luck i hope it works out for us all.:beer:

 

[Tref]

Realists? Are you sure about that? Then why would you enter a negotiation with such a polarizing, unworkable position in the first place?

If the NWA position is so "polarizing" and "unworkable" then why is DALPA so terrified of mediated arbitration? Perhaps the reality of the situation is 180 degrees out of phase with your perception of it.

Looked to me more like DALPA's bluff was called and they poo-ed a little and then took their cards and went home.

 

[On Your Six]

Well here is the most important aspect, The info i have been presented is almost completely opposite as to what the DAL guys are saying and they say the same from their side. So there is a big disconnect in the real discussions and FI discussions, Go figure.

Well, if that's the case, let's hope the merger never happens so that both sides can be happy. And then we can roll the dice and see who survives/prospers...

 

[On Your Six]

If the NWA position is so "polarizing" and "unworkable" then why is DALPA so terrified of mediated arbitration? Perhaps the reality of the situation is 180 degrees out of phase with your perception of it.

Looked to me more like DALPA's bluff was called and they poo-ed a little and then took their cards and went home.

Mediated arbitration will not work. Check out USAirways/AWA - it will not work. Do you want two pilots groups that ultimately can't work together due to lingering disagreements over fairness? That will be the result of arbitration. Plus, arbitration might not include all of the previous incentives thrown at the two pilot groups to actually work together - do you remember those incentives?

Looks like the window of opportunity might have closed for good - great work!

 

[FDJ2]

maybe you should be the ones "spooked"

•Northwest Airlines. CEO Doug Steenland two weeks ago called oil prices, which were then at $105 a barrel, a "serious budget breaker," because an average annual price above $100 a barrel would add $1.7 billion to Northwest's fuel bill this year. That's more than double its 2007 pretax profit of $764 million.


Ouch!