First year pay at Continental

[Captain Overs]

When various compensations are taken into account, not just hourly pay, I think CAL is still well behind just about all their counterparts. No overrides for international, night, overwater, subpar pension recently gutted further, no true long call reserve (crashpad costs, commuting, etc), plus the smaller things like no crew meals on any domestic leg, no uniform allowance, high copays, and a laundry list of other "no" items. Oh, but they do allow flying up to 100 hours in 30 days.

Well said.

 

[h25b]

Delta new hire pay is $56-58 an hour now.... Although, you won't see a new hire for quite some time....

Just an observation-

Yep, you're right... Won't be hiring for a long time... I'm just tired of all of the pro-union chest-thumping.

Here I am now, after 9 years of flying for a living and passing 4000 hrs. TT, 2800 Jet, 3400 Turbine, etc... I'm a happily employed corporate pilot, but I was just thinking the other day about what my options would be if I did have any desire to fly for the airlines...

1. JetBlue - Get in line behind everyone else to commute to JFK and start at $50,000. No thanks...
2. Continental - Get in line behind everyone else to make $27,000 (with no insurance to start)... Don't think so...
3. Pick a regional - Start at $19,000 and get on welfare. YGTBSM !!!

So when I listen to the average union goons I have to conclude that they haven't exactly been the best custodians of my profession. Hence, I shall be a corporate pilot forever and determine my own worth. Just food for thought. I guess this thread just got me thinking. Depressing...

 

[tubelcane]

IP
You are correct. I was meaning tosay what they did for me at each carrier while I was there. The plight of Allegheny is worse now. Some went to Piedmont others went to the unemployment line. And some went to Midatlantic which was sold to Chitaqua, and they were told they would go to year 1 fo pay. I think they were sold again to republic maybe. Anyway my friend had enough and went to Atlas in mid May.

 

[MJG]

and a laundry list of other "no" items.

Such as my personal favorite, no company paid parking any longer. But hey it all must be working since CAL posted a 2Q profit for the first time since 9/11.

 

[densoo]

Point is that after all of the years of collective bargaining at carriers like Continental, Delta, United, and American the first year pay rates at ALL OF THEM are embarrassing. Way to go ALPA/APA.

Unions don't represent first year pilots at many airlines, including CAL. Pilots are on probation and can't join the union until hire date plus one year. You have no representation and every captain you fly with must file a probationary pilot report to the chief pilot for each trip for the first year.

On the issue of pay, what is surprising is that the companies pay new hires ANYTHING. They know that they could probably hire pilots for free and pay only their per diem for the first year and they would still get more than enough takers who want the big prize at the end: a major airline job with union representation. And, by and large, it would be worth it. As fraught with human failings as union representation is, it is far better than the alternative: companies that have no shame, unrestricted in how they treat their employees.

 

[Ty Webb]

I was just thinking the other day about what my options would be if I did have any desire to fly for the airlines...

1. JetBlue - Get in line behind everyone else to commute to JFK and start at $50,000. No thanks...
2. Continental - Get in line behind everyone else to make $27,000 (with no insurance to start)... Don't think so...
3. Pick a regional - Start at $19,000 and get on welfare. YGTBSM !!!

Hence, I shall be a corporate pilot forever and determine my own worth. Just food for thought. I guess this thread just got me thinking. Depressing...

I could make a similar post about being a corporate pilot. Sounds to me like you are right where you need to be.


.

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

I could make a similar post about being a corporate pilot. Sounds to me like you are right where you need to be.


.

I could make a similar post about being a fighter pilot. Sounds to me me like you are right where you need to be.

 

[zonker]

Yep, you're right... Won't be hiring for a long time... I'm just tired of all of the pro-union chest-thumping.

Here I am now, after 9 years of flying for a living and passing 4000 hrs. TT, 2800 Jet, 3400 Turbine, etc... I'm a happily employed corporate pilot, but I was just thinking the other day about what my options would be if I did have any desire to fly for the airlines...

1. JetBlue - Get in line behind everyone else to commute to JFK and start at $50,000. No thanks...
2. Continental - Get in line behind everyone else to make $27,000 (with no insurance to start)... Don't think so...
3. Pick a regional - Start at $19,000 and get on welfare. YGTBSM !!!

So when I listen to the average union goons I have to conclude that they haven't exactly been the best custodians of my profession. Hence, I shall be a corporate pilot forever and determine my own worth. Just food for thought. I guess this thread just got me thinking. Depressing...

Poor baby.

I'd do the first two over flying corporate out of friggin ICT, 100 times out of 100. It's not the same job it used to be but get a grip.

 

[fletch717]

Short thrust, you forgot 3 meals a day , a roof over your head, 100% medical and dental for fighter pilots. not like the other two. I hope they don't let you fly with live ammo. Is it pronounced Doomas?

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

Fetch,

I trying to make the point that no matter what part of aviation you are in there is BS involved. There are a few good corporate gigs, military gigs, or even airline gigs. There are just far more bad ones than good. Is it pronounced sofaking stupid?

 

[I.P. Freley]

IP
You are correct. I was meaning tosay what they did for me at each carrier while I was there.

Okay, just checking, I thought maybe I'd missed something. The USAirways saga has a way of changing on a weekly basis.

 

[COpilot]

Hey, what is first year pay for a fighter pilot, and the pay progression from there?

 

[h25b]

Poor baby.

I'd do the first two over flying corporate out of friggin ICT, 100 times out of 100. It's not the same job it used to be but get a grip.

You obviously missed the part where I stated that I was a "happily employed" corporate pilot. And I have a grip, thanks... Not looking for any sympathy, just making a point.

Unions don't represent first year pilots at many airlines, including CAL. Pilots are on probation and can't join the union until hire date plus one year. You have no representation and every captain you fly with must file a probationary pilot report to the chief pilot for each trip for the first year.

On the issue of pay, what is surprising is that the companies pay new hires ANYTHING. They know that they could probably hire pilots for free and pay only their per diem for the first year and they would still get more than enough takers who want the big prize at the end: a major airline job with union representation. And, by and large, it would be worth it. As fraught with human failings as union representation is, it is far better than the alternative: companies that have no shame, unrestricted in how they treat their employees.

Exactly the mentality that has brought us to where we are today. I guess since according to you they don't represent first year pilots it's o.k. by you that they are getting screwed.

Boy, some "big prize" ..

The "it is far better than the alternative: companies that have no shame, unrestricted in how they treat their employees" statement is laughable, ask any pilot flying for a bankrupt carrier. They seem pretty unrestricted in how they treat their employees.

 

[densoo]

Exactly the mentality that has brought us to where we are today. I guess since according to you they don't represent first year pilots it's o.k. by you that they are getting screwed.

Boy, some "big prize" ..

The "it is far better than the alternative: companies that have no shame, unrestricted in how they treat their employees" statement is laughable, ask any pilot flying for a bankrupt carrier. The seem pretty unrestricted in how they treat their employees.

Lack of representation isn't "OK", but it is what it is. UAL ALPA showed what it could do for probationary pilots back in the mid-80s when they convinced the 470 new hires to honor the line. They were all fired, but the union fought for them and they returned. Yet this was a bright and shining anomoly.

Unions are no doubt on the ropes in this country and despite frustrations with their effectiveness in the current climate, I feel we would be much worse off without the leverage (albeit weak) of collective bargaining, even in bankrupcty. One can only imagine what this industry would have done to pilots the last four years had their been no brakes at all.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Lack of representation isn't "OK", but it is what it is. UAL ALPA showed what it could do for probationary pilots back in the mid-80s when they convinced the 470 new hires to honor the line. They were all fired, but the union fought for them and they returned. Yet this was a bright and shining anomoly.

Unions are no doubt on the ropes in this country and despite frustrations with their effectiveness in the current climate, I feel we would be much worse off without the leverage (albeit weak) of collective bargaining, even in bankrupcty. One can only imagine what this industry would have done to pilots the last four years had their been no brakes at all.

Are you flying in the same universe as me. The unions can't do crap when they go bankrupt. Bend over and hope it doesn't hurt too much before they furlough. The unions don't have the upper hand when as they did back in the 70's and 80's. This is 2005 brother and the ALPA doesn't have a chance until someone is in the black. Go Air Force!