First year pay at Continental

[Ty Webb]

I was just thinking the other day about what my options would be if I did have any desire to fly for the airlines...

1. JetBlue - Get in line behind everyone else to commute to JFK and start at $50,000. No thanks...
2. Continental - Get in line behind everyone else to make $27,000 (with no insurance to start)... Don't think so...
3. Pick a regional - Start at $19,000 and get on welfare. YGTBSM !!!

Hence, I shall be a corporate pilot forever and determine my own worth. Just food for thought. I guess this thread just got me thinking. Depressing...

I could make a similar post about being a corporate pilot. Sounds to me like you are right where you need to be.


.

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

I could make a similar post about being a corporate pilot. Sounds to me like you are right where you need to be.


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I could make a similar post about being a fighter pilot. Sounds to me me like you are right where you need to be.

 

[zonker]

Yep, you're right... Won't be hiring for a long time... I'm just tired of all of the pro-union chest-thumping.

Here I am now, after 9 years of flying for a living and passing 4000 hrs. TT, 2800 Jet, 3400 Turbine, etc... I'm a happily employed corporate pilot, but I was just thinking the other day about what my options would be if I did have any desire to fly for the airlines...

1. JetBlue - Get in line behind everyone else to commute to JFK and start at $50,000. No thanks...
2. Continental - Get in line behind everyone else to make $27,000 (with no insurance to start)... Don't think so...
3. Pick a regional - Start at $19,000 and get on welfare. YGTBSM !!!

So when I listen to the average union goons I have to conclude that they haven't exactly been the best custodians of my profession. Hence, I shall be a corporate pilot forever and determine my own worth. Just food for thought. I guess this thread just got me thinking. Depressing...

Poor baby.

I'd do the first two over flying corporate out of friggin ICT, 100 times out of 100. It's not the same job it used to be but get a grip.

 

[fletch717]

Short thrust, you forgot 3 meals a day , a roof over your head, 100% medical and dental for fighter pilots. not like the other two. I hope they don't let you fly with live ammo. Is it pronounced Doomas?

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

Fetch,

I trying to make the point that no matter what part of aviation you are in there is BS involved. There are a few good corporate gigs, military gigs, or even airline gigs. There are just far more bad ones than good. Is it pronounced sofaking stupid?

 

[I.P. Freley]

IP
You are correct. I was meaning tosay what they did for me at each carrier while I was there.

Okay, just checking, I thought maybe I'd missed something. The USAirways saga has a way of changing on a weekly basis.

 

[COpilot]

Hey, what is first year pay for a fighter pilot, and the pay progression from there?

 

[h25b]

Poor baby.

I'd do the first two over flying corporate out of friggin ICT, 100 times out of 100. It's not the same job it used to be but get a grip.

You obviously missed the part where I stated that I was a "happily employed" corporate pilot. And I have a grip, thanks... Not looking for any sympathy, just making a point.

Unions don't represent first year pilots at many airlines, including CAL. Pilots are on probation and can't join the union until hire date plus one year. You have no representation and every captain you fly with must file a probationary pilot report to the chief pilot for each trip for the first year.

On the issue of pay, what is surprising is that the companies pay new hires ANYTHING. They know that they could probably hire pilots for free and pay only their per diem for the first year and they would still get more than enough takers who want the big prize at the end: a major airline job with union representation. And, by and large, it would be worth it. As fraught with human failings as union representation is, it is far better than the alternative: companies that have no shame, unrestricted in how they treat their employees.

Exactly the mentality that has brought us to where we are today. I guess since according to you they don't represent first year pilots it's o.k. by you that they are getting screwed.

Boy, some "big prize" ..

The "it is far better than the alternative: companies that have no shame, unrestricted in how they treat their employees" statement is laughable, ask any pilot flying for a bankrupt carrier. They seem pretty unrestricted in how they treat their employees.

 

[densoo]

Exactly the mentality that has brought us to where we are today. I guess since according to you they don't represent first year pilots it's o.k. by you that they are getting screwed.

Boy, some "big prize" ..

The "it is far better than the alternative: companies that have no shame, unrestricted in how they treat their employees" statement is laughable, ask any pilot flying for a bankrupt carrier. The seem pretty unrestricted in how they treat their employees.

Lack of representation isn't "OK", but it is what it is. UAL ALPA showed what it could do for probationary pilots back in the mid-80s when they convinced the 470 new hires to honor the line. They were all fired, but the union fought for them and they returned. Yet this was a bright and shining anomoly.

Unions are no doubt on the ropes in this country and despite frustrations with their effectiveness in the current climate, I feel we would be much worse off without the leverage (albeit weak) of collective bargaining, even in bankrupcty. One can only imagine what this industry would have done to pilots the last four years had their been no brakes at all.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Lack of representation isn't "OK", but it is what it is. UAL ALPA showed what it could do for probationary pilots back in the mid-80s when they convinced the 470 new hires to honor the line. They were all fired, but the union fought for them and they returned. Yet this was a bright and shining anomoly.

Unions are no doubt on the ropes in this country and despite frustrations with their effectiveness in the current climate, I feel we would be much worse off without the leverage (albeit weak) of collective bargaining, even in bankrupcty. One can only imagine what this industry would have done to pilots the last four years had their been no brakes at all.

Are you flying in the same universe as me. The unions can't do crap when they go bankrupt. Bend over and hope it doesn't hurt too much before they furlough. The unions don't have the upper hand when as they did back in the 70's and 80's. This is 2005 brother and the ALPA doesn't have a chance until someone is in the black. Go Air Force!

 

[ultrarunner]

On the issue of pay...They know that they could probably hire pilots for free and pay only their per diem for the first year and they would still get more than enough takers who want the big prize at the end: a major airline job with union representation.

That's a prize now adays? Union representation is a prize. I take it that you mean, ALPA, Teamsters, etc...

You GOTTA start doing stand-up densoo, cause that $hit is freaking priceless.

 

[densoo]

That's a prize now adays? Union representation is a prize. I take it that you mean, ALPA, Teamsters, etc...

You GOTTA start doing stand-up densoo, cause that $hit is freaking priceless.

The statement was "the big prize at the end: a major airline job with union representation." Maybe the prize is more the "job" than the "union" but the existence of this board and many like it indicate that supply of these jobs is well below the demand for them. Many still think that it is worth pursuing. You may not.

 

[FlyChicaga]

This seems like a fitting quote here.

"I don't give a d*mn how wild-eyed you get about salary and maximum monthly hours and all that. Too many pilots figure a union is just that--just fight with management and screw the company. Okay, ALPA does exist to get more benefits for pilots. So a lot of members go to meetings only when they've got a contract renewal coming up and they want ALPA to know thye want theirs. That's fine. Pilots should be interested in what their union is negotitating for. But if ALPA ever becomes just a labor outfit, pilots are gonna become nothing but godd*mned bus drivers. Safety--that's what pilots should be interested in."

From the book, "The Left Seat" by Robert Sterling. I think a lot of people here think ALPA somehow has all this mighty power to wield against management, so they can "get theirs." Sorry, doesn't work that way. YOU are ALPA. So if you don't like it, then YOU need to fix it. You determine who your leaders are. Each member has an equal responsibility to work to improve things. After all, these concessionary contracts didn't vote themselves in. I don't remember Dwane Woerth saying, "Here are you new pay cuts." So you can rag on your union all you want, saying they are worthless, but remember that a union is only as effective as its membership.

 

[Captain Overs]

Except there are times when ALPA has told the pilots to vote "yes" on something because it's good for everyone.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Except there are times when ALPA has told the pilots to vote "yes" on something because it's good for everyone.

You're elected representative leadership? They can say, "Look, we think this is best for us all." That does not mean you must blindly follow them. However, some faith should be placed in those with more information, which normally the average line pilot does not have. No, they are not always right. If the leadership does the pilot group injustice, then it is the job of the pilot group to replace them with folks who will better represent the interests of the whole.

I didn't grow up in a family of union chest-thumpers by any means. Actually, quite the opposite. However, I can see the benefits of ALPA, and it unsettles me to see pilots disown the union. ALPA does much more than negotiate and protect collective barganing agreements. Some lose sight of this. I do believe ALPA should do more "education" of various pilot groups, who continuously sign below-standard contracts to gain an upper hand, only to see said contracts continuously breached. It certainly shouldn't be the only thing ALPA does. See the quote above. There are some more pertinent issues, like changes to the rest and duty rules to improve safety.

We don't want to be treated like bus drivers. Well, we need to stop acting like them.

 

[Captain Overs]

Dude you're preaching to the choir when it comes to Unions. I was a member of the local 710 Teamsters in Chicago (UPS) when you were still in diapers. I've been a member of 3 Unions including my current one ALPA. I think what your talking more about is the MEC. I think ALPA National does a lot to protect my job in Washington. When I hear people complain about ALPA they most always are really complaining about their MEC.


Speaking of leadership. I still have some good frinds at XJT where you work. I remember hearing about how your MEC Chairman was recalled before the contract was ratified. He's still the Chair? Pilot empathy has a lot to do with things as well. Pilots can be lazy by nature and they don't always do what in their best interest as a whole. They put too much of that "Faith" in their leaders and never go down to the Union office and get their hands dirty and find out for themselves what's going on.

I'm not a Union chest thumper either as you mentioned. But, I believe a Union can be just as constructive and destructive.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Good points.

 

[Captain Overs]

Fly Chicaga,


I think you should see Dr. Corona about that "Lime and lager disease."

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Speaking of leadership. I still have some good frinds at XJT where you work. I remember hearing about how your MEC Chairman was recalled before the contract was ratified. He's still the Chair?

He was never recalled. Only the MEC can recall the Chairman. There is a lot more to this story so if you want specifics, drop me a line. But no, he wasn't recalled...not by a long shot.

-Neal

 

[Captain Overs]

I stand corrected on the recall. Didn't it go to a vote with the MEC?