First SLI thread of the day

[RJLoser]

New Mesaba MEC email says they hope to have the decision "very soon".

Seen that a few times over the last two weeks.

 

[xjhawk]

Yeah, I never said any of that stuff. I said DOH across the board. Try again buttercup.

I am not in on exactly what is happening but from what I hear is that there are inconsistencies with the Pinnacle seniority list and that is what is at question here. I think another matter might be that there is a definition of DOH by ALPA-a legal definition that might effect on how to determine Pinnacle's DOH. call me a jack hole but if you think you losing 3 months of seniority is worse that what I have heard from MOST of your pilots-not you in particular, but just random guys I have deadheaded with, talked with or heard on these boards-now that is a jack hole thing to hear.

I also must say what pinnacle proposed screwed over all but them. Mesaba's proposal should be looked very highly on by most pilots except some Jr XJ pilots, a few VERy senior 9E guys, and colgan FO's who would not be afforded a quick upgrade. But I must say this, the colgan CA's and their FO's have gained ALOT in QOL and pay by the new contract. I must also add that Colgan's captains will retain their positions and not many if ANY captains from MEsaba will go east or south to bid in Saabs (but maybe a few senior FO's will go to the Q )

SO if you want to talk who is offering the biggest screw job, just look at your pilot group and you will see that not only did your union propose a screw job of a deal for everyone else, but what your pilot group has in knowledge on what is happening or what other unions have proposed is screwy.

I thought that it would be fair to offer the pinnacle pilots a new adjusted DOH to reflect their first day of training-that was before I found out that your union wanted to screw a lot of Mesaba pilots and all colgan pilots, that was before I heard that some of your "adjusted" DOH dates were outright wrong (as per our union message), that was before I heard how many of your pilots to my face would say crap like "asset transfer and offer you jobs, 5:1, staple, you get furloughed while we hire and I upgrade, we bought you" SO NOW I AGREE, if the attorneys say their is language that says your DOH needs to be on your check ride, guess what? I will thank my union for screwing you-remember the old saying, "expect to be treated exactly how you treat others"

 

[Flyprdu]

...call me a jack hole...

You're a jackhole..

If you want to unjustly punish the Pinnacle pilot group over some half-heard rumor about the Pinnacle proposal, then you are exactly that.. a jackhole.

Enjoy your new title.

 

[CptMurf]

Here's the thing... To change the list at the endgame, although legal under the terms of the accepted negotiations, is tantamount to "Dirty Pool," The SLI committee was responsible to come up with a certified accurate list (not management), and the other SLI committees used that provided lists to come up with their proposals. I can understand that a mistake can happen, but when over 100 peoples DOH changes, it affects the entire integration method. Now this rumor has spread around 9E that XJ is not letting EVERYONE use their DOH is political misinformation of the situation at hand, is being propagated my some in the 9E MEC, and is totally false. The dispute was with some of these 100 individuals DOHs changing by as much as 8 months. Those types of changes need to be validated, and should have been when the first certified lists where shared at the beginning of negotiations. If anything, those affected individuals should be happy that this dispute arose, so that their DOH was adjusted to show accurate information.

So everyone needs to calm down and stop the name calling. I would hope that the list situation was not intentional, but if it was, then the only jackholes I see are the 9E SLI committee members.

 

[e=mc2]

In the end the award will say the Tallest Midget in the room is...............
CptMurf, XjHawk, or......

 

[bri5150]

In the end the award will say the Tallest Midget in the room is...............
CptMurf, XjHawk, or......

I think it's interesting that these type of comments come from a those that seem to be on the 9E "side" while the Mesaba side just presents their facts/opinions in more of an adult fashion.

p.s. Add my name to the tallest midget if ya like.

 

[CptMurf]

I think it's interesting that these type of comments come from a those that seem to be on the 9E "side" while the Mesaba side just presents their facts/opinions in more of an adult fashion.

p.s. Add my name to the tallest midget if ya like.

Can we say "midget" anymore? I didn't think that was PC.

Oh ********************, I guess I just said it. ;-)

 

[mesaba13]

I am now hearing from a reliable source that this did not just start as a Mesaba dispute and the arbitrator may be the one that opened this whole can of worms. ie. Mr. Bloch called all this into question when he got the updated lists and was very concerned over the new 9E list.

This concern for date of hire makes me think that DOH must have been at least part of his formula, otherwise he would not care about moving DOH's.

 

[ataopsdave]

I am now hearing from a reliable source that this did not just start as a Mesaba dispute and the arbitrator may be the one that opened this whole can of worms. ie. Mr. Bloch called all this into question when he got the updated lists and was very concerned over the new 9E list.

This concern for date of hire makes me think that DOH must have been at least part of his formula, otherwise he would not care about moving DOH's.

From what I've heard was that his concern was about the MOU pilots. When he went down the list he saw that their order on the seniority list was all out of whack because they were brought over to 9E out of seniority order. That is just one of the several issues he is still working out

 

[CptMurf]

From what I've heard was that his concern was about the MOU pilots. When he went down the list he saw that their order on the seniority list was all out of whack because they were brought over to 9E out of seniority order. That is just one of the several issues he is still working out

I don't know, but it seems to me one could have caused the other. Blotch raises questions about the MOU pilots over the weekend. Asks for updated lists on Monday, which once shared, raises concerns of other DOH's changing. XJ and 9L had the previous list for sometime, if they had concerns for that list, it would have already come out.

I just wonder if Blotch hadn't requested the updated lists, what would have happened to the guys affected. It's a very bad situation that was caused solely by the 9E SLI committee. Had they done their due diligence we would not be here. I'm happy the discrepancy came to light and we had the time to fix it before the ISL was published. But to blame the XJ SLI committee for disputing the list is asinine. It needed to be disputed to verify and fix the discrepancies in the 9E list, otherwise those 9E pilots would have paid the price.

 

[Flyprdu]

Pinnacle's method of DOH couldn't have been a surprise to XJ and 9L... It was one of the first things the pilot group brought to our negotiators.

To say that we sprung this last minute is preposterous.

 

[CptMurf]

Pinnacle's method of DOH couldn't have been a surprise to XJ and 9L... It was one of the first things the pilot group brought to our negotiators.

To say that we sprung this last minute is preposterous.

Your feeding into the political propaganda posted on Internet message boards. The issue wasn't with the entire groups method of DOH, but over 100 DOH adjustments between the original list shared at the start of negotiations, and the updated list shared Monday. The idea of adjusting the DOH to class date is not in question, in fact that's defined in the JCBA contract. That idea is just a internet board distraction. Basically, this was sprung last minute, albeit legal by the terms of the negotiations LOA.

 

[DoinTime]

I just wonder if Blotch hadn't requested the updated lists, what would have happened to the guys affected. It's a very bad situation that was caused solely by the 9E SLI committee. Had they done their due diligence we would not be here. I'm happy the discrepancy came to light and we had the time to fix it before the ISL was published. But to blame the XJ SLI committee for disputing the list is asinine. It needed to be disputed to verify and fix the discrepancies in the 9E list, otherwise those 9E pilots would have paid the price.

The errors were identified on Monday and corrected by Tuesday morning. There are no more known errors. XJ and Colgan still dispute the PCL list because they don't acknowledge that our posted company hire dates changed with the ratification of the JCBA. Everyone will have their different proposals on the methodology of the list sorting but what XJ and Colgan are trying to do is manipulate the factual data that is applied to the methodology to disadvantage PCL pilots in case DOH has anything to do with the award.

Mesaba and Colgan's position on interpretation of ALPA merger policy just don't fit. PCL new hires have been being paid in training since around 2007. Colgan has a known lack of pay during training over the past 20 years and I'm sure that over the past 30 years Mesaba has had varying pay schemes for its pilots during training. If XJ and CJC want a strict application of the DOH definition in merger policy it will require a full investigation into every last pilot's pay treatment during training and the reordering of all three lists.

 

[DoinTime]

The idea of adjusting the DOH to class date is not in question, in fact that's defined in the JCBA contract.

You are getting bad information.

 

[gojo]

The errors were identified on Monday and corrected by Tuesday morning. There are no more known errors. XJ and Colgan still dispute the PCL list because they don't acknowledge that our posted company hire dates changed with the ratification of the JCBA. Everyone will have their different proposals on the methodology of the list sorting but what XJ and Colgan are trying to do is manipulate the factual data that is applied to the methodology to disadvantage PCL pilots in case DOH has anything to do with the award

.

Mesaba and Colgan's position on interpretation of ALPA merger policy just don't fit. PCL new hires have been being paid in training since around 2007. Colgan has a known lack of pay during training over the past 20 years and I'm sure that over the past 30 years Mesaba has had varying pay schemes for its pilots during training. If XJ and CJC want a strict application of the DOH definition in merger policy it will require a full investigation into every last pilot's pay treatment during training and the reordering of all three lists.

How do you know this, or are you just speculating?

 

[xjhawk]

todays the day! we will all know the ins and outs of the SLI by 1259pm! Ahh crap, its 100pm. Never mind

 

[CptMurf]

The errors were identified on Monday and corrected by Tuesday morning. There are no more known errors. XJ and Colgan still dispute the PCL list because they don't acknowledge that our posted company hire dates changed with the ratification of the JCBA. Everyone will have their different proposals on the methodology of the list sorting but what XJ and Colgan are trying to do is manipulate the factual data that is applied to the methodology to disadvantage PCL pilots in case DOH has anything to do with the award.

Mesaba and Colgan's position on interpretation of ALPA merger policy just don't fit. PCL new hires have been being paid in training since around 2007. Colgan has a known lack of pay during training over the past 20 years and I'm sure that over the past 30 years Mesaba has had varying pay schemes for its pilots during training. If XJ and CJC want a strict application of the DOH definition in merger policy it will require a full investigation into every last pilot's pay treatment during training and the reordering of all three lists.

Just checked with a 23 year guy and a 26 year guy. XJ has paid from day one that far back.

 

[xjhawk]

yeah the guy "DoingTime" is just pulling crap out of the air-where is he getting this crap? Do your research and find out if Mesaba has changed any pay during training over the last 30 years. ANyone on our list was a full employee and fully paid all through training. Period. It is not Mesaba holding this up, it is guys like DoingTime and their MEC/SLI committee who just make crap up, lie, try to screw over Colgan and Mesaba (don't even tell me that is false). You Pinnacle guys can go ahead and try and change your DOH in your minds, but I am sure a company like Pinnacle is not going to change it because it would cost them a lot of money. Let me ask you this-I really do not know. Were you paying ALPA dues when you were not an employee and not getting paid before your hire date? When you proposed to change your DOH, did you also propose to pay back dues for that time? Oh you did not? Then you are all not in good standing-

 

[suupah]

yeah the guy "DoingTime" is just pulling crap out of the air-where is he getting this crap? Do your research and find out if Mesaba has changed any pay during training over the last 30 years. ANyone on our list was a full employee and fully paid all through training. Period. It is not Mesaba holding this up, it is guys like DoingTime and their MEC/SLI committee who just make crap up, lie, try to screw over Colgan and Mesaba (don't even tell me that is false). You Pinnacle guys can go ahead and try and change your DOH in your minds, but I am sure a company like Pinnacle is not going to change it because it would cost them a lot of money. Let me ask you this-I really do not know. Were you paying ALPA dues when you were not an employee and not getting paid before your hire date? When you proposed to change your DOH, did you also propose to pay back dues for that time? Oh you did not? Then you are all not in good standing-

Not disagreeing with you, but alpa dues are 1.95% of your pay. if they were not getting paid then, their dues were 0 so, yes they were paying their dues which were 0 dollars and 0 cents.

 

[Vertigo37]

Dues are zero for a probationary pilot.