First SLI thread of the day

[Flyprdu]

Pinnacle's method of DOH couldn't have been a surprise to XJ and 9L... It was one of the first things the pilot group brought to our negotiators.

To say that we sprung this last minute is preposterous.

 

[CptMurf]

Pinnacle's method of DOH couldn't have been a surprise to XJ and 9L... It was one of the first things the pilot group brought to our negotiators.

To say that we sprung this last minute is preposterous.

Your feeding into the political propaganda posted on Internet message boards. The issue wasn't with the entire groups method of DOH, but over 100 DOH adjustments between the original list shared at the start of negotiations, and the updated list shared Monday. The idea of adjusting the DOH to class date is not in question, in fact that's defined in the JCBA contract. That idea is just a internet board distraction. Basically, this was sprung last minute, albeit legal by the terms of the negotiations LOA.

 

[DoinTime]

I just wonder if Blotch hadn't requested the updated lists, what would have happened to the guys affected. It's a very bad situation that was caused solely by the 9E SLI committee. Had they done their due diligence we would not be here. I'm happy the discrepancy came to light and we had the time to fix it before the ISL was published. But to blame the XJ SLI committee for disputing the list is asinine. It needed to be disputed to verify and fix the discrepancies in the 9E list, otherwise those 9E pilots would have paid the price.

The errors were identified on Monday and corrected by Tuesday morning. There are no more known errors. XJ and Colgan still dispute the PCL list because they don't acknowledge that our posted company hire dates changed with the ratification of the JCBA. Everyone will have their different proposals on the methodology of the list sorting but what XJ and Colgan are trying to do is manipulate the factual data that is applied to the methodology to disadvantage PCL pilots in case DOH has anything to do with the award.

Mesaba and Colgan's position on interpretation of ALPA merger policy just don't fit. PCL new hires have been being paid in training since around 2007. Colgan has a known lack of pay during training over the past 20 years and I'm sure that over the past 30 years Mesaba has had varying pay schemes for its pilots during training. If XJ and CJC want a strict application of the DOH definition in merger policy it will require a full investigation into every last pilot's pay treatment during training and the reordering of all three lists.

 

[DoinTime]

The idea of adjusting the DOH to class date is not in question, in fact that's defined in the JCBA contract.

You are getting bad information.

 

[gojo]

The errors were identified on Monday and corrected by Tuesday morning. There are no more known errors. XJ and Colgan still dispute the PCL list because they don't acknowledge that our posted company hire dates changed with the ratification of the JCBA. Everyone will have their different proposals on the methodology of the list sorting but what XJ and Colgan are trying to do is manipulate the factual data that is applied to the methodology to disadvantage PCL pilots in case DOH has anything to do with the award

.

Mesaba and Colgan's position on interpretation of ALPA merger policy just don't fit. PCL new hires have been being paid in training since around 2007. Colgan has a known lack of pay during training over the past 20 years and I'm sure that over the past 30 years Mesaba has had varying pay schemes for its pilots during training. If XJ and CJC want a strict application of the DOH definition in merger policy it will require a full investigation into every last pilot's pay treatment during training and the reordering of all three lists.

How do you know this, or are you just speculating?

 

[xjhawk]

todays the day! we will all know the ins and outs of the SLI by 1259pm! Ahh crap, its 100pm. Never mind

 

[CptMurf]

The errors were identified on Monday and corrected by Tuesday morning. There are no more known errors. XJ and Colgan still dispute the PCL list because they don't acknowledge that our posted company hire dates changed with the ratification of the JCBA. Everyone will have their different proposals on the methodology of the list sorting but what XJ and Colgan are trying to do is manipulate the factual data that is applied to the methodology to disadvantage PCL pilots in case DOH has anything to do with the award.

Mesaba and Colgan's position on interpretation of ALPA merger policy just don't fit. PCL new hires have been being paid in training since around 2007. Colgan has a known lack of pay during training over the past 20 years and I'm sure that over the past 30 years Mesaba has had varying pay schemes for its pilots during training. If XJ and CJC want a strict application of the DOH definition in merger policy it will require a full investigation into every last pilot's pay treatment during training and the reordering of all three lists.

Just checked with a 23 year guy and a 26 year guy. XJ has paid from day one that far back.

 

[xjhawk]

yeah the guy "DoingTime" is just pulling crap out of the air-where is he getting this crap? Do your research and find out if Mesaba has changed any pay during training over the last 30 years. ANyone on our list was a full employee and fully paid all through training. Period. It is not Mesaba holding this up, it is guys like DoingTime and their MEC/SLI committee who just make crap up, lie, try to screw over Colgan and Mesaba (don't even tell me that is false). You Pinnacle guys can go ahead and try and change your DOH in your minds, but I am sure a company like Pinnacle is not going to change it because it would cost them a lot of money. Let me ask you this-I really do not know. Were you paying ALPA dues when you were not an employee and not getting paid before your hire date? When you proposed to change your DOH, did you also propose to pay back dues for that time? Oh you did not? Then you are all not in good standing-

 

[suupah]

yeah the guy "DoingTime" is just pulling crap out of the air-where is he getting this crap? Do your research and find out if Mesaba has changed any pay during training over the last 30 years. ANyone on our list was a full employee and fully paid all through training. Period. It is not Mesaba holding this up, it is guys like DoingTime and their MEC/SLI committee who just make crap up, lie, try to screw over Colgan and Mesaba (don't even tell me that is false). You Pinnacle guys can go ahead and try and change your DOH in your minds, but I am sure a company like Pinnacle is not going to change it because it would cost them a lot of money. Let me ask you this-I really do not know. Were you paying ALPA dues when you were not an employee and not getting paid before your hire date? When you proposed to change your DOH, did you also propose to pay back dues for that time? Oh you did not? Then you are all not in good standing-

Not disagreeing with you, but alpa dues are 1.95% of your pay. if they were not getting paid then, their dues were 0 so, yes they were paying their dues which were 0 dollars and 0 cents.

 

[Vertigo37]

Dues are zero for a probationary pilot.

 

[higney85]

XJhawk- you may want to actually read the LOA in the contract. The date is changed, longevity for pay is not. Dues came out starting on class date +1. So I had dues coming out in September (while on first year pay) but didn't hit year 2 pay/benefits until November (checkride). This is all clear in the LOA. The list submitted contained the same info from the "certified" list when the process started, only difference is "column G" was removed which was "checkride date" which left class date as our only date (first day of class) which exactly what LOA2.V stipulated and was allowed under the last bullet point of the process/protocol agreement when this all started. It was a known variable and Mesaba and Colgan contest it because it doesn't benefit them. On the PCL side we are now all on exactly the same page for respective start dates. Nobodyis getting "an edge" but it is beneficial to others to "dock" a group in the event DOH is anywhere associated with the award method. It's up to Bloch, but there was no "last minute carpet yank" going on. If anything this issue wasn't realized by others as it was agreed to in negotiations. One of the last pieces of the JCBA was the hire date/longevity. 9E pilots have the date changed (mainly for sli parity and travel benes) but we did not get longevity adjustment for pay/vacation/401k match. The 9E MEC let it go in order for all to get the contract (although the company made it very clear that we had ZERO chance of getting the change due to costs). You can source me- I was in the room and a voting member on that.

 

[Flyer1015]

You know, if this is really as easy as you make it sound, then Bloch would have this dispute cleared up. As of right now, he has not, which means it's still in consideration and anything could be game.

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

yeah the guy "DoingTime" is just pulling crap out of the air-where is he getting this crap? Do your research and find out if Mesaba has changed any pay during training over the last 30 years. ANyone on our list was a full employee and fully paid all through training. Period. It is not Mesaba holding this up, it is guys like DoingTime and their MEC/SLI committee who just make crap up, lie, try to screw over Colgan and Mesaba (don't even tell me that is false). You Pinnacle guys can go ahead and try and change your DOH in your minds, but I am sure a company like Pinnacle is not going to change it because it would cost them a lot of money. Let me ask you this-I really do not know. Were you paying ALPA dues when you were not an employee and not getting paid before your hire date? When you proposed to change your DOH, did you also propose to pay back dues for that time? Oh you did not? Then you are all not in good standing-

Now there's a question I believe I can answer definitively...where is crap usually pulled from?

 

[xjhawk]

higney- I see what you are saying but the information I have gotten-I was not in the room-is that it was only for travel benefits as it cost too much as per the Pinnacle to give you an adjusted official DOH. I was always for that adjustment you talk about to keep everyone even, but hearing the things I have heard-mainly the final proposal to screw so many people that pinnacle put forth-and hearing that making everyone even was not agreed upon-hearing that there were issues with the dates giving more longevity to 9E pilots-and just the general talk from most of the pinnacle pilots who would say to my face they want our planes, want our seniority, who wrongly think they bought us-who wants to screw me for their benefit at the expense of my family-I say screw your 3 months-serves you right. Oh and if it were as easy as you say-as someone said, it would be done by now.

But in the end, you may get your 3 months-none of us know even if DOH will be given in any way. But all I want to know is why 9E did not choose DOH when it benefits so many 9E pilots? Greed-I hope that was evident to Bloch-

 

[suupah]

higney- I see what you are saying but the information I have gotten-I was not in the room-is that it was only for travel benefits as it cost too much as per the Pinnacle to give you an adjusted official DOH. I was always for that adjustment you talk about to keep everyone even, but hearing the things I have heard-mainly the final proposal to screw so many people that pinnacle put forth-and hearing that making everyone even was not agreed upon-hearing that there were issues with the dates giving more longevity to 9E pilots-and just the general talk from most of the pinnacle pilots who would say to my face they want our planes, want our seniority, who wrongly think they bought us-who wants to screw me for their benefit at the expense of my family-I say screw your 3 months-serves you right. Oh and if it were as easy as you say-as someone said, it would be done by now.

But in the end, you may get your 3 months-none of us know even if DOH will be given in any way. But all I want to know is why 9E did not choose DOH when it benefits so many 9E pilots? Greed-I hope that was evident to Bloch-

dude, seriously. The PCL proposal should not cloud your view of what is fair. For them to have the same DOH methodology as the rest of us is just plain fair. It is how it should be.