Fired - Need Advice

[twgordy]

Hey, listen to Richard. Those numbers are exactly what I was taught during training in the 727. Don't get too down I know it's hard not to. EVERYONE has done something they are not proud of, and if they havent, then they don't have much experience. Lord knows I have.

 

[pilotmyf]

I recently completed training at a well known regional. I passed both my oral and checkride on my first attempt, however, busted my IOE line check for having to go-around on a visual approach due to an early base turn which resulted in me being high on final. I did have some extra time in IOE, but it was nothing out of the ordinary. The airline asked me to resign as a result of this bust. Since then, I cannot seem to get on with another regional and have been forced back into flight instruction. I am afraid that this scar has ruined my career. Granted, I am low time (920 TT, 150 ME), but I'm worried that I may never get on with another regional. Any advice from people with similar experiences.

As an aside, the airline I was with recently formed an alter-ego carrier and has been treating their pilots like dirt. I let everyone guess which regional I'm talking about.

Thst is SOP at my airline, not stable=go around, with no ques asked afterwards!!!

 

[millhouse21]

Sounds like your "well known" regional is Trans States. If that's the case they have a reputation for firing people on a regular basis. With your entry level hours and no previous airline experience any interviewer can understand how you might have been in over your head at the time. A company like TSA typically doesn't spend much extra time training pilots and they really don't care how far along you were in training either. A simple " I was in over my head at the time" followed up by a " I learned about a lot of weaknesses that I had as a pilot (situational awareness/instrument flying?) and I've spent a lot of time in simulators and in airplanes working on them so that doesn't happen again". At 1,000 hours you're new to all this. Work on it. WC (ex TSA)

I was reading this thread and thinking the same thing. TSA is spring loaded to fire pilots at any provocation. I can't really explain why they do this except possibly they want a certain amount of firing to go on all the time to keep up the proper level of fear. If it was Trans States, that's actually good news. Most other airlines know about this place and I've even heard of people going to interviews and being asked "have you failed a checkride other than at Trans States?"

 

[jehtplane]

I recently completed training at a well known regional. I passed both my oral and checkride on my first attempt, however, busted my IOE line check for having to go-around on a visual approach due to an early base turn which resulted in me being high on final. I did have some extra time in IOE, but it was nothing out of the ordinary. The airline asked me to resign as a result of this bust. Since then, I cannot seem to get on with another regional and have been forced back into flight instruction. I am afraid that this scar has ruined my career. Granted, I am low time (920 TT, 150 ME), but I'm worried that I may never get on with another regional. Any advice from people with similar experiences.

As an aside, the airline I was with recently formed an alter-ego carrier and has been treating their pilots like dirt. I let everyone guess which regional I'm talking about.

Did you require extra sim training before your checkride?

 

[PSAChiefPilots]

Did you require extra sim training before your checkride?

We've hired guys with failures and I know guys who failed out here and got hired elsewhere....It happens, Keep applying but go do some Mock Interviews or Talk to someone about how to handle the questions in an Interview. Try Lori Clark, you can find her on the internet. Keep Flying and stay current!

Good Luck,
PSACPSP

 

[J32driver]

PilotBTS1972:

After reading all of this, it sounds like you had problems with visual approaches. Not just the last one, but most of them. I would guess that the IOE instructor probably worked with you on a number of different visual approaches where you had problems. The final go around was just the one that broke the camel's back.

Getting fired from TSA certainly isn't the end of the world. I'm echoing everyone else. Do the part 135 thing, build up some good solid flight times, then go try the regional thing again.

How do you explain it in the next interview. Simple, I was in over my head jumping from a C172 to an E145. It wasn't the knowledge that got me, it was the lack flight experience in something bigger and faster than a Cessna. To fix this problem, I took a job flying freight in a Navajo. I've been doing it for the last year, I've got x number of hours and passed checkrides now. I'm now definitely prepared to move on to flying jets.

If you want to, you will overcome this. Just because an airline turns you down once doesn't mean you can't interview again in six months.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Not to burst your bubble but, with your time, you should be able to make any visual approach in any aircraft. The perception is all the same with the exception of sitting higher.

Were you getting any aural warnings, ie, "sink rate"??? Cause if you did, then you are required to go around in most places. But, my thoughts are that if you are visual, there are no excuses except for wind shear. If you cant land a plane in VMC you're not fit for much in any airplane.

 

[wheelsup]

PilotBTS1972,

I had a hard time with visual approaches as well. Understanding what ATC expects you to do (ie when to start slowing from 250, when to start down, decent rate, etc.) Maybe that was your problem?

Use the 3:1 rule for altitudes though, it works well for judging altitudes.

~wheelsup

 

[PCL_128]

Not to burst your bubble but, with your time, you should be able to make any visual approach in any aircraft. The perception is all the same with the exception of sitting higher.

Were you getting any aural warnings, ie, "sink rate"??? Cause if you did, then you are required to go around in most places. But, my thoughts are that if you are visual, there are no excuses except for wind shear. If you cant land a plane in VMC you're not fit for much in any airplane.

Ease up a little bit. Every new FO has trouble with visuals in a jet for the first few hours. It's nothing to get worked up about. After a little while they get used to it.

 

[crzepilot]

I think you area tool box, you 900 hr cry baby.

 

[OPECJet]

I think you area tool box, you 900 hr cry baby.

I hope you're kidding, so I'll leave your flaming to others.

I can understand the visual thing. I hear a lot of check airmen complain that people get out of the sim, fly picture perfect ILS's, but can't get it down doing a visual. My airline has actually started training them in the sim there were so many complaints.

 

[Standby 1]

Not to burst your bubble but, with your time, you should be able to make any visual approach in any aircraft. The perception is all the same with the exception of sitting higher.

Were you getting any aural warnings, ie, "sink rate"??? Cause if you did, then you are required to go around in most places. But, my thoughts are that if you are visual, there are no excuses except for wind shear. If you cant land a plane in VMC you're not fit for much in any airplane.

Oh, what a load of horse-poop.

As I recall, making the adjustments needed to fly a good visual approach in your first jet was the hardest part of the whole transition and I can't tell you how many other people experienced the exact same problem. Usually it just takes a good IOE pilot to teach you a few tricks (like the 3:1 rule)....I remember my IOE instructor doing me a huge favor and dimming all my screens to black for about 3 visual approaches on one particular good-wx day. Bingo - adjustment made.

For the original poster: okay, so you had some problems with your visuals and were asked to resign. Nothing you can do about that now. In between the smart-alecked responses you got some great advice. It's not a career killer. Go instruct for a few more months, get the 135 mins and go fly a Navajo around for a year or so before getting back into the 121 game. While flying freight won't necessarily improve your ability to fly a visual in a jet, it will give you invaluable single-pilot IFR skills AND it will look great on your resume, making your future 121 interviews go much smoother when this incident comes up.

Oh, and here's another rule of thumb....pilots who, either in person or on a msg board, have sanctimonious attitudes regarding other pilot's flying skills are generally the type of people who wear leather driving gloves while flying and feel quite insecure regarding their own skills, which are generally so poor that they couldn't fly their way out of a paper bag even when the wx is clear - and -a - million (oops, I'm not supposed to make that reference over here, am I? My bad). :erm:


.

 

[PilotBTS1972]

Thanks for everyone's input. On the upside, I just received a call from Airnet with an offer. Unfortunately, I can't start class until I get my total time up to 1050 and then will be able to participate in their SIC program until I have 135 mins. A month or two of instructing and then on to 135 freight.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Hey that would be one big paper bag Standby1. I'm sorry I just don't see any difference in visual approaches in a jet. the glide path is still 3 degrees isn't it? The only thing I could see would be a problem if they dumped you high and fast like they do in teterhole alot. Other than that, maybe he just screwed the one approach that meant it all?

 

[Standby 1]

Hey that would be one big paper bag Standby1.

Ha ha - good point!

 

[FN FAL]

FN Fal,

No split time. Everything is either Solo, Dual Given or Dual received. No money to rent planes (even if I'm only paying for half).

Cool, thanks.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

I recently completed training at a well known regional. I passed both my oral and checkride on my first attempt, however, busted my IOE line check for having to go-around on a visual approach due to an early base turn which resulted in me being high on final. I did have some extra time in IOE, but it was nothing out of the ordinary. The airline asked me to resign as a result of this bust. Since then, I cannot seem to get on with another regional and have been forced back into flight instruction. I am afraid that this scar has ruined my career. Granted, I am low time (920 TT, 150 ME), but I'm worried that I may never get on with another regional. Any advice from people with similar experiences.

As an aside, the airline I was with recently formed an alter-ego carrier and has been treating their pilots like dirt. I let everyone guess which regional I'm talking about.

Answer: Bad Situational Awareness

Sorry it happened. I think your career is not over, just a big setback unfort.

 

[Tarzan]

I don't kow if you've ever taught the trick of using fingerwidth above the glare shield to students but it works in EMB's just as well as a 172. During my IOE my first visuals were not all that great either. Just to much going on with a new airplane and the check airman barking at you. But from where I sit in the plane, the thousand foot marker is about three fingers (laid sideways) on the top of the glareshield. I simply kept that sight picture the whole way and maintained airspeed as needed. Once it comes together, you don't even really look at the PAPI as much either except just to make sure.

I'm still low time by comparison to most guys out there even thoug I had more hours than most in my new hire class But I knew the basics still work here just like they did in the recips. Still an airplane. Still the basics of pitch, power (thrust) and trim. (Except for that spool time)

Best of luck to you. Take a good look at what you've accompished. This can be a learning experience that make you stand out at the next interview. "This what I've learned" stuff. Oncer again, good luck.

 

[AWACoff]

Heck, I was high on almost every visual when I transitioned to the RJ from the 146. It happens. Different deck angle and not flying sharp enough...what else can be said. Just remember, all of these larger aircraft fly much better if you just treat them like an airplane. Nothing more, nothing less. Just fly the $*&^*& plane (words from OE at Lakes). Sounds like you let the airplane intimidate you a bit. No biggy, just git 'r dun at Airnet and have fun. Who knows, maybe you can skip the whole regional level with contacts made at Airnet.

AWACoff

 

[Diesel]

As an IOE instructor for a long time in jets. The visual was the last thing wrong in a serious of events. There has to be more to the story. Remember the IOE instructor might have to explain to his boss why he failed you. Saying he failed you just because of a visual approach doesn't jive.

Sounds like there was more to it.