Fired - Need Advice

[PilotBTS1972]

FN Fal,

No split time. Everything is either Solo, Dual Given or Dual received. No money to rent planes (even if I'm only paying for half).

 

[BOHICAgain]

I don't agree with this statement. I think the sim is easier.

are you kidding me. Line flying is a joke as long as you get along with the crew. sit back relax and let george(autopilot) do its thing..just try not to get coffee on your shirt

 

[Flybet3]

I appreciate everyone's comments and assume that the interview boards I have met with since the bust had similar reactions. Going from a Seminole to a EMB-145 is challenging no matter how good a pilot you are, but what I said in my first post is the truth. Visuals were the primary reason for the extra time in IOE, but again, the extra time was not extraordinary. I agree that more time will help, but I'm not sure that doing stalls in a 172 and accumulating 500 more hours is going to make me any more qualified for a regional than I am now.

It's ok my friend...I kinda agree with ya, a visual approach on a Jet for the first couple of times is kinda tough. Especially if you dont have anything to back it up with like an ILS. So dont feel to bad, first jet I flew was the CJ, easy jet to fly, probably one of the easiest but every time I did a visual with no back up it made it look like I had no Idea what I was doing. Also having a dik head next to you screaming doesnt help at all. When I flew at the regionals and flew the CRJ I got stuck with an a$$hole of a captain for three days, that was my first big jet experience. If anyone thinks that doing a visual approach into detroit at night with windshear advisories and a ex navy tomcat a-hole is easy...then you suck. Dont worry by friend, as long as you get interviews you can always explain. If not then theirs always, 135 flying....or even better another job out of aviation! good luck

 

[WhiteCloud]

Sounds like your "well known" regional is Trans States. If that's the case they have a reputation for firing people on a regular basis. With your entry level hours and no previous airline experience any interviewer can understand how you might have been in over your head at the time. A company like TSA typically doesn't spend much extra time training pilots and they really don't care how far along you were in training either. A simple " I was in over my head at the time" followed up by a " I learned about a lot of weaknesses that I had as a pilot (situational awareness/instrument flying?) and I've spent a lot of time in simulators and in airplanes working on them so that doesn't happen again". At 1,000 hours you're new to all this. Work on it. WC (ex TSA)

 

[airlinepilot]

How Do You Spell>>>>>>>

TOAST no company will invest thousands of bucks into a new pilot and then let them go for a simple go-around................IOE is nothing more than cooperate and graduate

 

[talespin]

You weren't humming in the cockpit while trying to recover were you?

In 6 years of doing I.O.E. I only downed one guy and the reason was he just couldn't fly. He passed his ride with extended training and basically slipped through the cracks until his I.O.E. His sim instructor claimed he was a nice guy, and yes he was, but I want my family and yours to fly with someone who can fly an airplane not win a popularity contest. After about 40 hours and still little to no progress he had to go. The only reason I bring this up is this could be you, but only you would know that!

 

[viper548]

If it was TSA wouldn't they fire him then offer him a job at G0-Jets?

 

[100LL... Again!]

Dude, there are people with less time than this guy/gal that get into a bomber and friggin go to Iraq. Let's stop the low time dramatics.

The screening and training process for military pilots is not comparable to the civilian world. Only the most capable make it, and ALTHOUGH they are low time, there is an unbelievable amount of ground training and prep that the typical light-plane CFI will not have. Plus, all time is highly structured to maximize learning. Light plane civilian pilot's training quality varies greatly.

Fligh time isn't everything, to be sure, but it really is silly that lots of people think that 1000 hours is all you need to fly a regional jet competently.

It is all SOME people need, and SOME need even less. But most of them would do well to get some real world IFR PIC in something that they can handle ALONE, rather than getting baby-sat at a regional.

 

[pilotyip]

ditto Skywest, go build some more time, there are lots of entry level cargo jobs. Make sure you come clean completely in any future interview. The interviewers have likley heard a lot of stories, they may even have personal contacts at your last company. They will get the unoffical off-line on what happened. We have hired two 121 IOE failures in the past, they both went on to other airlines and intact careers.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't agree with this statement. I think the sim is easier.

Agreed. I don't see why people get so worked up about the sim. There's no real surprises in the sim. No slam-dunk visuals without electronic guidance, no 250 til the marker, no multiple failures, nothing that could remotely be described as high-workload. I've always found the sim to be the easy part.

 

[100LL... Again!]

I appreciate everyone's comments and assume that the interview boards I have met with since the bust had similar reactions. Going from a Seminole to a EMB-145 is challenging no matter how good a pilot you are, but what I said in my first post is the truth. Visuals were the primary reason for the extra time in IOE, but again, the extra time was not extraordinary. I agree that more time will help, but I'm not sure that doing stalls in a 172 and accumulating 500 more hours is going to make me any more qualified for a regional than I am now.

You'd be surprised. If any given "next step" proves to be too much, it means that you have not mastered the previous level. Really. Most of the airline or 135 pilots I trained that had trouble displayed signs that it was FUNDAMENTAL skills that were deficient.

 

[Atccfi]

Keep your head up!

I agree with Skywestcrj and with White cloud.... they bot had valid points. I'd say keep trying at other regionals and see what happens. In the mean time keep building your time and when you get to 135 mins. go fly freight in a twin somewhere. Flight express will take you this monday morning if you show up ( It's on on fl350). I have always heard of freight being solid, skill building flying. When you get your time up some more and do get to the next level you can tell the interview board that you were not ready for such a large step up and decided to take it one step at a time and not skip any steps... no faulting you for that, as a matter of fact, it is respectable and it sounds alot better than what you are putting out there right now... Take it for what it's worth... Best of luck to you.

 

[BOHICAgain]

No slam-dunk visuals without electronic guidance, no 250 til the marker, no multiple failures, nothing that could remotely be described as high-workload. I've always found the sim to be the easy part.

electronic guidance...do u need that everytime.. just aim for the numbers...
and no multiple failures in the sim??

I give you that the sim is easier because everything is planned. But line flying is much easier until you crap in your pants. Then you wish u were in the box.

 

[PCL_128]

electronic guidance...do u need that everytime.. just aim for the numbers...

You would be amazed how many new FOs have a problem with this. Flying a simple visual pattern, which is what many of them were doing for 1000 hours as a CFI, is a complete cluster for some new guys.

and no multiple failures in the sim??

Not during a jeopardy event. Check the PTS. No multiple failures, no unreasonable distractions, no attempts to "trick" you, etc... The PTS is pretty clear about this stuff. Sim rides are always straightforward.

 

[Singlecoil]

This wasn't just one visual approach that you messed up. You had to do extra IOE because of problems with visual approaches. That means other check airmen were instructing you and you weren't getting it. They no doubt communicated this with the line check airman. You had shown a history of problems with the visual, he saw that you still hadn't been able to improve, and you were let go. That much you need to admit and move on. In the future when you relate this story, you need to say something like, "In hindsight, I shouldn't have accepted the job offer because I didn't have enough experience. At the time, I thought it wouldn't be a problem at all, but I soon learned otherwise. I let myself get behind the airplane on more than one occasion and that was simply unacceptable. To the company's credit, they worked with me and let me do some extra IOE, but we later both agreed that I would be better off getting some more experience and trying again at a later date. I feel I have improved my flying skills to the point where this issue won't be a problem for me in the future and I now feel I am ready for the next level."

Fire up your computer and fly the jet on flight simulator. Do a bunch of touch and goes in a closed pattern until you are bored. I have over 9000 hours and still do that once in a while if I haven't been flying on reserve and feel I need to brush up.

Good luck.

 

[Mike man]

What company?

 

[FlyingFerris]

Visuals were the primary reason for the extra time in IOE, but again, the extra time was not extraordinary. I agree that more time will help, but I'm not sure that doing stalls in a 172 and accumulating 500 more hours is going to make me any more qualified for a regional than I am now.

Ok time to eat your humble pie or be glad someone forcefed it to you. Obviously more time is exactly what you need because your stick and rudder was far from being good otherwise you would have jumped into the jet without much heart ache. There are growing pains, but when you can't fly a visual that's usualy a combination of bad stick and rudder, instrument flying, or both. Obviously everyone else knows you need the extra time but you. You can either accept this or be arrogent about it, only one will lead you back to the cockpit of an airliner.

You're sounding like some of the "canidates" at the flight school I taught at who got kicked back and thought that they were delt a great disservice because they had the best European style 250 hours of training anywhere. They said the very same things you did.

are you kidding me. Line flying is a joke as long as you get along with the crew. sit back relax and let george(autopilot) do its thing..just try not to get coffee on your shirt

I agree with this 100%. No firebells everyflight, an engine failure could happen not will happen (I know for me it was only one or two out of four,) you shoot an approach land, done, not approach, missed, approach, missed, approach, land with an engine on fire. Yeah the stress level is hight when I'm trying not to spill my pepsi.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

BTS,

Don't beat yourself up over this. I know this airline well. They have washed out some very good pilots over the years. Consider this as a very tough learning experience.

I think the IOE instructors might be a little to blame as well. Have you ever heard the 3 to 1 rule? When trying to learn your visual sight picture in jets it is very helpful to judge your altitude. Basically for every mile you are from the runway add 300' to your altitude agl. At six miles you should be at 1800' agl. This rule will provide you with gates to check your altitude during the approach and will help with situational awareness.

Also some hard numbers like 25 - 30 miles from the airport plan on being at 10,000' and 250 kts or 10 miles from the field you should be at 3000' and 210 knots. These work for the 737 and may or may not work for the ERJ. To configure I also use flaps 15, gear down by 2500' and flaps 30 by 2000' agl.

This helps me with my situational awareness. A lot of this was all taught to me by IOE instructors as reference points during visual approaches. I always use these as guidelines to know where I am. If you haven't heard some of these numbers before, I'd say your IOE was lacking.

Remember, your attitude is everything during training. Stay positive and willing to try and most instructors will bend over backwards to get you through. If they see a negative attitude your done. Good luck.

 

[Bankangle]

Dude, there are people with less time than this guy/gal that get into a bomber and friggin go to Iraq. Let's stop the low time dramatics.

Lets be real..the training is just a little bit different... However I am just basising my statement on my own experience. I have always thought of myself as a good pilot but when I had the kind of time he had, I think i wouldve been getting extra IOE too! I think its only after accumalating quite a few thousands of hours and a number of types, that you can look back and realize how little you knew back in the day.

always learning

 

[Captain Overs]

I just don't see how you can be failed for executing a missed approach. Going missed when the approach is bad is a show of good judgement. Now if you didn't realize you needed to go around and the check airman told you to then that is a different story.

There has to be a history of things that happened during training. You don't just get fired for doing one thing wrong,,,,, unless you crash.