Fate is the Hunter

[Ty Webb]

Your post sounds like it was written by a 15 year old kid who is too stupid to know how little he knows, so he thinks everyone else is stupid. Grow up, learn some respect for those who have gone before you.

 

[patq1]

I'm sorry, this sentance made me retch for some reason.

Maybe because I've been there, done that, got the tee-shirt, lost friends, and enjoyed a bit of frostbite that I don't see any romance in what was a truly dangerous time. .

You've been there and done that, huh? I hope you aren't seriously comparing the flying that you have done to what Ernie Gann and the aviators of his day did. On your worst day it doesn't even come close; except in your most grandiose dreams. You need to find some of these men, now in there 80s or older and talk to them for a while. And no, my father would never willingly trade the 747-100 that he retired in for the China Clipper, Boeing 247, or DC-3 that he started his career in.

 

[BoilerUP]

Ummm...yeah? I would have made sure my cargo was tied down? Mmmmhmmm? See, if you don't, that's suicidal, and as much as I love my country, military orders to makes this flight now aren't quite enough to cause me to commit suicide--which wouldn't help the army or me. I've stood up, stopped the process and required it be done correctly. Have you?

I can't believe you are actually defending Gann's taking off without secure cargo. That was a phck-up and he knew it and I knew it and you should know it, unless you're used to the rest of the world telling you how to load and fly an airplane where you are PIC.

I tend to agree with Ty...how old are you, 12? A WAR WAS GOING ON, MAN! I guarantee you would not have looked an Army officer in the eye in 1942 and told him you were not going to fly an overweight airplane, or an airplane with unsecured cargo, into an unfamiliar area with poor charts (if any) and unknown weather because it wasn't safe and "in your best interest". You are lying to us and yourself if you believe that.

If you want to criticize Gann's actions thats fine, as he never claims he was God's gift to aviation. You however, my friend, need to get over yourself. Your vast, superior knowledge to what is smart flying and common sense is derived directly from the experiences, and yes, mistakes, of those pilots who flew before you. You really should respect that.

 

[radarlove]

You've been there and done that, huh? I hope you aren't seriously comparing the flying that you have done to what Ernie Gann and the aviators of his day did. On your worst day it doesn't even come close; except in your most grandiose dreams..

NDBs are different now? Cowl flaps are different? Non-radar environment is different? Wing boots are different? Ice is different? Feathering a prop is different?

I spent two months flying an airplane built in 1940. P.O.S. it was. I spent 2,000 hours flying in a non-radar environment. Yes, I contend that in some cases (scheduled passenger transport not included) things have simply not changed that much.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

pi·lotn.
One who operates or is licensed to operate an aircraft in flight.
Nautical. One who, though not belonging to a ship's company, is licensed to conduct a ship into and out of port or through dangerous waters. The helmsman of a ship.

or

a·vi·a·tor n.
One who operates an aircraft; a pilot.


The Navy called thier aircraft operators aviators because they also had boat pilots.

Not all pilots are aviators but all aviators are pilots.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes, I contend that in some cases (scheduled passenger transport not included) things have simply not changed that much.

I think you should go back to wearing your aluminum foil head protection while in flight.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I started in this silly game just under 30 years ago flying DC-3s in the Carribean and Central America, VFR & uncontrolled IFR, no radar and no clue. The typical "dispatch release" was "here's $5K, bring the plane home in three days and account for every penny you spend kid".

I now fly an Airbus 319 and am nearing retirement. I'm here to tell you Radar Love that things have most certainly changed. OBTW, I have 7 engine failures in over 20K hours. Five of them were in the DC-3, while my TT in that plane is only 1,200 hours. I'll take a V1 cut in the 3 over a dual MCDU latch up anyday!

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Oh yeah, this thread was about Fate is the Hunter and Ernie Gann. It was required reading for a type rating in the DC 3 back in the day. The first question the examiner asked was if I had read the book. In my opinion still one of the best aviation classics ever.

 

[ivauir]

You've been there and done that, huh? I hope you aren't seriously comparing the flying that you have done to what Ernie Gann and the aviators of his day did. On your worst day it doesn't even come close; except in your most grandiose dreams. You need to find some of these men, now in there 80s or older and talk to them for a while. And no, my father would never willingly trade the 747-100 that he retired in for the China Clipper, Boeing 247, or DC-3 that he started his career in.

Go fly in Africa or South America and tell me how much aviation (or the rest of life for that matter) has changed. Not an ounce of disrespect for those who have gone before, because the vast majority of flying in the world today IS vastly different. But challenging and dangerous flying is still out there - the difference is that back then ALL flying was challenging and dangerous.... oh and today the knowledge of how it should be done is out there, these guys were making it up as they went along because there was no one to tell them how it should or even could be done.

 

[pilotyip]

Round Engines

Round engines make you a good single engine pilot, in just over 1000 hours of round engine time 1820/1830 I have had four inflight shutdowns. 2 on the 1820 and 2 on the 1830. One a total failure at 400' night hard IFR, scary! three precautionary inflight save the engine shutdowns. You think about it on every takeoff. I have to say jets are easier to fly, but take a lot more time to learn.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Radarlove:

You have no respect!

Yeah, I spent many hours poopin' my pants, loaded up with ice over 12,000 ft. MEA's in recip twins.

But!

We are standing on the shoulders of giants. You think you were born with all that "pilot knowledge"? Somebody gave you a clue. Somebody gave you that "pilot attitude". Somebody knew "somebody" that died passing that info/lore along.

You are standing on the shoulders of giants. And bragging about how "tall" you are...
Our procedures and culture are written in blood. (As well as our checklists...)

 

[Donsa320]

Radarlove:

You have no respect!

Yeah, I spent many hours poopin' my pants, loaded up with ice over 12,000 ft. MEA's in recip twins.

But!

We are standing on the shoulders of giants. You think you were born with all that "pilot knowledge"? Somebody gave you a clue. Somebody gave you that "pilot attitude". Somebody knew "somebody" that died passing that info/lore along.

You are standing on the shoulders of giants. And bragging about how "tall" you are...
Our procedures and culture are written in blood. (As well as our checklists...)

Well said man.

I saw "Island in the Sky", the movie, in the base theater at Reese AFB while I was an Aviation Cadet in 1953. It inspired me. A year later, in 1954, I saw "The High and the Mighty" as a new USAF pilot and it inspired me even more.

Yesterday I ordered both of those from Amazon.com for August release and I can hardly wait to see them again. And I will be moved by them again after 32,000 hours of my own flying.

~DC

 

[patq1]

NDBs are different now? Cowl flaps are different? Non-radar environment is different? Wing boots are different? Ice is different? Feathering a prop is different?

Yeah, actually they were. I believe, and someone else can correct me, but the early NDB approaches were flown with a direction finder where you had to turn the loop yourself. Besides that the receivers today are better and more reliable. Also many of the approaches that he spoke about in the book were low frequency range approaches. There aren't many people left that have flown any of those. And pilots actually still had to know how to use a sextant. It was just a bit different. Once again, look at the list at the beginning of the book and tell me again how it's all the same today. I guess all of the guys on that list just weren't as good a pilot as you are.

 

[BD King]

Yeah, actually they were. I believe, and someone else can correct me, but the early NDB approaches were flown with a direction finder where you had to turn the loop yourself. Besides that the receivers today are better and more reliable. Also many of the approaches that he spoke about in the book were low frequency range approaches. There aren't many people left that have flown any of those. And pilots actually still had to know how to use a sextant. It was just a bit different. Once again, look at the list at the beginning of the book and tell me again how it's all the same today. I guess all of the guys on that list just weren't as good a pilot as you are.

Very nice post. You are indeed correct. Unless I counted wrong, there are 350 names at the beginning of the book. They are listed as "To these old comrades with wings...Forever folded." Fifty one were from American Airlines. Gann's company. The probability is that he met each one. He probably knew others from other carriers, as for example, he knew Bob Buck (TWA, alive and well)...Think about it. How many guys do you know bought it? In my case, I knew twenty six. Now that does not mean we sent Christmas cards each year, but could at least say hi and how's the kids. That number pales to Gann's, and quite possibly to others on this silly forum.

You really make me feel old with the statement about range leg approaches. Curb your tongue. I ain't that old..........I do not regret their demise, but by God they had flavor. The cone of silence was deafening....Come to think of it, maybe I do miss it. T'was a challenge to the bowels and one's patience..Amber Airways were indeed different.

As times became modern, we became really fancy. We could transmit on approach or tower and listen on the localizer freq. Had to. Only had one transmitter and one, and only one, receiver. Actually, only had five or seven transmitting crystals.

I will shut up now.


www.bdkingpress.com

 

[FlyChicaga]

It is so awesome to hear some of the "old timers" participating in this thread. I wish they'd participate more in the boards. Sadly, we could learn so much from them, but are too busy bitching about Mesa's contract or dealing with flamebait posters to sit and listen. I know I at least feel that way. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm starting to believe all the "old timers" don't want to put up with all the immaturity, so they hide in the shadows. I hope more come out to "tell us how it is" so we can learn from them.

I only wish I had some "old timers" around to talk to and learn from when I was younger and just getting started in flying. I think it could have done wonders. At least some have written books we can read, and re-read, for a long time.

 

[patq1]

Very nice post. You are indeed correct. Unless I counted wrong, there are 350 names at the beginning of the book. They are listed as "To these old comrades with wings...Forever folded." Fifty one were from American Airlines. Gann's company. The probability is that he met each one. He probably knew others from other carriers, as for example, he knew Bob Buck (TWA, alive and well)...Think about it. How many guys do you know bought it? In my case, I knew twenty six. Now that does not mean we sent Christmas cards each year, but could at least say hi and how's the kids. That number pales to Gann's, and quite possibly to others on this silly forum.

You really make me feel old with the statement about range leg approaches. Curb your tongue. I ain't that old..........I do not regret their demise, but by God they had flavor. The cone of silence was deafening....Come to think of it, maybe I do miss it. T'was a challenge to the bowels and one's patience..Amber Airways were indeed different.

As times became modern, we became really fancy. We could transmit on approach or tower and listen on the localizer freq. Had to. Only had one transmitter and one, and only one, receiver. Actually, only had five or seven transmitting crystals.

I will shut up now.


www.bdkingpress.com

I heard the stories from my father and his friends about the range approaches and all sorts of other interesting things, including the lighted airway beacons. As far as the list is concerned, I recognize 4 or 5 names as friends of my fathers that he used to talk about. He probably knew most of the other UAL names. I know of at least one occasion where the company asked him to tell the family because they were friends.

I checked out your website. I need to order a copy of Hostage to Fortune. Thanks.

Pat

 

[Captain Overs]

It is so awesome to hear some of the "old timers" participating in this thread. I wish they'd participate more in the boards. Sadly, we could learn so much from them, but are too busy bitching about Mesa's contract or dealing with flamebait posters to sit and listen. I know I at least feel that way. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm almost feeling like all the "old timers" who really paved the way for us don't want to put up with all the immaturity, so they hide in the shadows. I hope more come out to "tell us how it is" so we can learn from them.

I only wish I had some "old timers" around to talk to and learn from when I was younger and just getting started in flying. I think it could have done wonders. At least some have written books we can read, and re-read, for a long time.

Who have you paved the way for? How can you say you "Almost feel like all the old timers.." Are you kidding me? You are basically a low time wonder pilot. You'll still be wet behind the ears for many years to come. Thanks for the laugh though.

 

[BD King]

I heard the stories from my father and his friends about the range approaches and all sorts of other interesting things, including the lighted airway beacons. As far as the list is concerned, I recognize 4 or 5 names as friends of my fathers that he used to talk about. He probably knew most of the other UAL names. I know of at least one occasion where the company asked him to tell the family because they were friends.

I checked out your website. I need to order a copy of Hostage to Fortune. Thanks.

Pat

Thanks. You will also find Robert Serling's THE LEFT SEAT. That book helped prompt standardization, but really deals with the old time humor and comradarie of the airlines prior to the jet age. Dean Smith's book, BY THE SEAT OF MY PANTS, is probably my favorite read after A HOSTAGE TO FORTUNE. It is somewhat of an obscure book, but by golly, you will think you have God as your co-pilot after you read it.

 

[BD King]

Who have you paved the way for? How can you say you "Almost feel like all the old timers.." Are you kidding me? You are basically a low time wonder pilot. You'll still be wet behind the ears for many years to come. Thanks for the laugh though.

Hey Captain Overs, I think you are a bit harsh here. Reread his post again.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Who have you paved the way for? How can you say you "Almost feel like all the old timers.." Are you kidding me? You are basically a low time wonder pilot. You'll still be wet behind the ears for many years to come. Thanks for the laugh though.

Did you even read what I said? Or do you just feel like you have some bone to pick? Twice now you have replied to posts of mine reading only what you want to hear, instead of what I wrote. Either that, or I suggest Sylvan Learning Centers. Obviously you have some major issue that it might be time to come to terms with. I might be an over-eager pilot dork, but I do know my place.

BDKing,

I just checked out your website, and bought "Hostage to Fortune", "The High and the Mighty", and "The Left Seat". Thank you for reproducing these books! I've gone to Barnes and Noble and Borders all over the country, every time getting on the computer and searching for Ernest K. Gann. No luck, minus "Fate Is The Hunter". I anxiously await delivery.