Fate is the Hunter

[Ty Webb]

RadarLove:

After reading 3 of Gann's books and 3 of your posts, it is clear that you are an idiot that isn't even fit to lick his boots.

Please refrain from further posting until you have acquired some knowlege of what this industry has gone through, you intolerable putz.

PS., Ernie Gann had underwear with more flight time than you have.

 

[T1bubba]

And don't give me any of "it was different back then",

You obviously have no idea just how many aircraft used to crash "back then." Flying of any kind used to be a very dangerous proposition.

If you think Gann was full of BS, I guess de Saint Expuery's books must have been complete fabrications. After all, how many crashes can a guy survive?

 

[plattsburgher]

I think you missed the point of the whole book. He wasn't saying he was the hero, he was saying he was no different than anyone else, including all those who didn't live to retirement, just luckier that day.

You should also consider all of the rules that we have that they didn't have to keep out of trouble: good chart coverage, crew rest, oxygen rules, thunderstorm avoidance, etc. You can almost see the rule book being written as they encounter these hazards.

 

[fokkers&beer]

Gann is a god. Go fly radials for a while, then come talk to me. Guy Murchie (the world aloft) is also a good read, St Ex is a little dry for me, but a must read anyway.

I imagine this thread had to start as flame bait, no one can really be that ignorant.

 

[njcapt]

LearLove:

After reading 3 of Gann's books and 3 of your posts, it is clear that you are an idiot that isn't even fit to lick his boots.

Please refrain from further posting until you have acquired some knowlege of what this industry has gone through, you intolerable putz. Bill Lear would pull it out and slap you with it, you pathetic ass-clown.

LearLove might have a little heartburn over your talking smack about him, since he has yet to post to this thread.

 

[bafanguy]

But now I'm almost done and finally my BS meter went off... he spends a lot of time as the hero, let me tell you.

radarlove,

If only half of what Gann describes is true for him personally, it'll give you a first-hand account of what it was like. That alone would be worth the read.

Perhaps you've not had to chance to sit down with some of the pilots who did the things Gann describes in the book and listen to their stories. If you didn't have any heroes before that opportunity, you would afterward. We all stand rather safely and comfortably on the shoulders of what these guys did for aviation and they deserve our respect, not our doubts. I suppose that not being there, it's hard to fathom what actually happened and what it took to be a part of it...both during WW2 and in airline flying post-war.

I was fortunate to fly with a bunch of these Gann-type folks and I still admit to child-like awe at these men. They thought nothing of getting in a B17 with only 300 hours total time and flying over to Europe...flying C46's over the Hump...flying fighters in the Pacific after checking themselves out in a new type that was dropped off at the base along with the manual.

Post war, they came back and flew DC3's, CV240's, and C46's with limited comm/navaids, engines with too many moving parts, little ice protection, and no wx radar, waiting for the lightening flashes at night to see where to penetrate the line. A few even flew for some of the major European carriers, or Iran Air, or Saudi in the '50's, or were in some startup carriers or freight airlines, or non-skeds in the USA.

When you flew with these guys, you were flying with SOMEBODY. They were the survivors...no bragging or BS...they just knew a lot of stuff and if you prompted enough, they'd tell you about it.

I guess my experience was a bit of the reverse of yours...I flew with these guys THEN read the book. If you don't know anyone like these guys yet, hurry up and find a few as their numbers are dwindling. After closing down the bar with them, Gann's book will take on a new reality for you.

 

[LearLove]

UMMMM I didn't post anything. I think somebody got the name wrong. In ref to Gann, I have most of his books, if not all, collected thru ebay and other sources and if you search back in my posts you will see what I've posted about him and his work.

yeah, like i'd really say that being as I'm sitting 2 feet from a bookshelf that has 14 of his books in it that I read regulary.

 

[cubflyr]

Went to the AA museum @ DFW some years ago. They had a display case full of Ernest K. Gann's memorabilia, including one of his logbooks. The logbook was opened to the page with the entry labeled "ICE". A very humbling moment to stand and view that.
Gann was flying for Trans Ocean when Island in the Sky and The High and the Mighty was filmed. They provided the aircraft & Gann was the technical director for both films. Read the book "Folded Wings". Good history of Trans Ocean Airlines (TALOA).

 

[91100 100 set]

LearLove:

After reading 3 of Gann's books and 3 of your posts, it is clear that you are an idiot that isn't even fit to lick his boots.

Please refrain from further posting until you have acquired some knowlege of what this industry has gone through, you intolerable putz. Bill Lear would pull it out and slap you with it, you pathetic ass-clown.

Easy there sporto. Learlove is not Radarlove. Lear's been there and has been on this ride for quite some time now. I'd suggest you take your own advice. And take a look in the mirror before you call anyone an intolerable putz and a pathetic ass clown.

 

[LearLove]

deleted..... thats just not nice

 

[FlierDude]

.

His best book was "The High and the Mighty." Should be required reading before any CRM course. It was made into a Duke Wayne movie.

Ernie and Duke became friends during the filming. In the mid-'70's, I landed at Suburban (Toledo) and saw an odd-looking pusher-twin seaplane being tended by its owner in a T-hangar. Turns out this Piaggio Royal Gull had been Gann's ride during that time, and he and Duke had spent a few hours in it.

Most of the old guys I know are pretty humble, but tell it like it was when pressed. IMO, today's aviators lack the soul of their predecessors. It took a certain individual to succeed back then. I came on when the last range systems were being phased out, those were the golden days for sure.

No one's mentioned it, but Gann went on to also become a successful Broadway producer.

I flew with an 80+ old ex-NWA captain I met a couple years ago. He was typed in -4s, -6s, 580, and the 9. He'd just done about all one could. I had a drop-off in a 421C for the owner, and they let him ride along. I let him fly the dead-head leg (of course). From taxi to takeoff, 1 hour enroute, and landing, he wore that airplane. I barely had to say a thing. He made an elegant descent with minute power reductions, and greased the landing. I remarked on how well he handled the bird as we taxied in. He looked to me with a small tear in his eye. Said he hadn't flown since he retired. Gave me a chill, and made me feel like a hack at the same time.

.

 

[J Dawg]

I don't think the whole thing was BS, it's just that my BS meter came off the peg during the fifth or sixth time he was landing below minimums while on fire or whatever. I've caught fire twice, both times it was gorgeous VFR. Think back to the number of low, low, low approaches you shoot in a year.

Back when I was running cancelled checks, I've had 5 or 6 low approaches in a night on several occasions. Total number of low approaches would have numbered in the hundreds over the span of a career as long as Gann's. Besides, these approaches were NDB and A-N range approaches, with higher mins than an ILS.


Everyone who likes Gann's books should check out Bob Buck's "North Star Over My Shoulder", as someone already mentioned. Also, Rick Drury's "Flightlines" is excellent, with the same writing style as Gann's. Drury describes the mood from the cockpit of modern jetliners with excellent writing.

 

[patq1]

Has anyone read this book? It's about flying in the 40s and it started out fascinating--how little airline work has changed in 60 years, the same problem with crew schedulers, jerk captains, seniority, etc.

But now I'm almost done and finally my BS meter went off. He just described his fifteenth or twentieth harrowing, wings-on-fire, weather below minimums, out-of-gas skillful approach and landing. Either this guy spent his whole career wearing an instrument-training hood, or he found more bad weather than I've ever seen.

Still a good book, especially his day-to-day life descriptions, but ugh, he spends a lot of time as the hero, let me tell you.

Your BS meter may have been going off but then that's just because you are too used to today's airplanes and equipment. Those old guys like Ernie Gann make us look like a bunch of sissys. You actually had to have a set to fly back then. My father started working flying for the airlines(Pan Am for a couple of years and then to UAL) in 1941. I've heard him and his friends tell a lot of stories, some of which I found hard to believe at the first telling but then verified by others. I've seen his old logbooks and the number of engine fires and failures recorded are eye opening. But they were just recorded as side notes because it happened all the time. Now throw in a line of thunderstorms that you can't go around or over and that you may or may not know is there(because there is no radar) or a ton of ice and a low frequency range approach in the mountains and you start to get the idea that this is not the flying that you or I know, not even on our worst days.

Reread the preface to Fate Is The Hunter and note the paragraph where he says he made a conscious effort not to exaggerate and if you have any more doubt about the dangers just look at the list of names at the beginning. I recogize 4 or 5 of those names because my father knew them. It was quite a business back then. And I'll bet Ernie Gann never whined about wearing his hat.

pat

 

[patq1]

Easy there sporto. Learlove is not Radarlove. Lear's been there and has been on this ride for quite some time now. I'd suggest you take your own advice. And take a look in the mirror before you call anyone an intolerable putz and a pathetic ass clown.

No offense but I don't think he was referring to Learlove from flightinfo, he was talking about Bill Lear who invented the Lear jet, just a little different. So before you get too excited read it a little more carefully.

 

[ATRCAPT]

Ernest K. Gann happened to be a gifted writer (Band of Brothers, The High and the Mighty).


Actually, Band of Brothers was written by Stephen E. Ambrose.

Gann wrote another book by this title. About a 727 that crashes due to a malfuntioning beacon.