Fate is the Hunter

[radarlove]

So what airline did he work for? As far as I can tell, it wasn't Pan Am, United or Delta. And what was the steamship airline?

 

[91100 100 set]

So what airline did he work for? As far as I can tell, it wasn't Pan Am, United or Delta. And what was the steamship airline?

There is no direct reference to which airline he flew for in Fate is the Hunter, but there is a mention of other airlines in one section, including Eastern and Pan Am, so I guess you could figure that it wasn't any of the mentioned airlines. There is one brief reference about having to hoist an American flag out the window after landing as being an FO duty in Hostage to Fortune (excellant book, I found it a few years ago and only had a chance to read it once before it was "lost" in a relationship gone awry). And I might be dreaming this, but I think that might have been an old tradition at American. I seem to remember seeing some kind of CNN stock footage shortly after 9-11 showing an American Airlines plane taxing around with a flag flying out a cockpit window. Very brief glimpse, but it was rather stirring to see. Can anyone perhaps elaborate on that?

Regarding all the super-exciting type of adventures in Fate is the Hunter, of course he's going to only write about interesting stuff. I'm sure that flying around in DC-3's back in the day was far more exciting and prone to misadventure then running back and forth between A and B is today. And if his entire book read something like "Today we flew between Newark and Cleveland and back and nothing interesting happened except some lady barfed in her handbag", the book would not be the classic it is today.

 

[BD King]

Try to find a copy of his autobiography, "A Hostage to Fortune." He had a fascinating life, and flying was only part of it.

The flying portion of A Hostage to Fortune is similar to Fate is the Hunter, but with different, more personal, details (including airline names).

Ask and you shall receive. I republish A HOSTAGE TO FORTUNE along with THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY and ISLAND IN THE SKY.

Gann was a 20k hour pilot and was the youngest captain in American's history. At the end of the war, after being a part of the folks that established the North, and also,the South Atlantic routes, he followed Sloninger's suggestion to come with him to a new start-up, Matson Airlines. Matson was a big player in cruise lines and expanded itself into the airline business. However, we must realize that the CAB was the controlling agency at that time and was subject to a great deal of political pressure.

Matson cut heavily into PanAm's pocket book on the route to Hawaii, and Juan Trippe succeeded in getting the CAB to, in essence, strangle Matson out of the business.

Somebody mentioned that Ambrose wrote A BAND OF BROTHERS, and he did. However, Gann used the title first. A title cannot be copyrighted.

For a writer's excerpt on my website, I use the preface from Gann's FLYING CIRCUS, if anyone is interested.

These books and others are available by clicking on my advertisement at the left or www.bdkingpress.com or at amazon.

If there be any doubt on Gann's life, Airway's Magazine and Flight Journal both call A HOSTAGE TO FORTUNE the best non-fiction book of the 20th century.

 

[ATRCAPT]

Watch your tongue, boy!

Has anyone read this book? It's about flying in the 40s and it started out fascinating--how little airline work has changed in 60 years, the same problem with crew schedulers, jerk captains, seniority, etc.

But now I'm almost done and finally my BS meter went off. He just described his fifteenth or twentieth harrowing, wings-on-fire, weather below minimums, out-of-gas skillful approach and landing. Either this guy spent his whole career wearing an instrument-training hood, or he found more bad weather than I've ever seen.

Still a good book, especially his day-to-day life descriptions, but ugh, he spends a lot of time as the hero, let me tell you.

Do NOT, under any circumstances, EVER dis Ernie Gann! He was doin' this $hit before most of us were even a thought! If you think Fate is the Hunter is BS you obviously don't know your history.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Another great historical read is When the Airlines Went to War by R. J. Serling. (The Left Seat). It documents how the US Commerical Airlines were mobilized for America's War effort, up to and including Gulf War I.

The efforts, teamwork and lives that Air Line Pilots gave are quite incredible. From page 138 American Airlines pilot Bill Evans stated;

“When we got there, the Army pilots were getting the Air Medal for fifteen trips over the Hump, and the Distinguished Flying Cross for thirty flights. They never flew at night. We were making three round trips a day, and when we started flying the Hump at night, that ended the medals.”


​

The contributions of civilian airline pilots to our country's national security is quite impressive and of pride.

The efforts of our Air Line Pilot pioneers is impresseive. When the US mail contract battles were raging in the 1920's and 30's, the US gov't ordered Army pilots to fly the routes. They were killed by the dozen because they didn't have the experience and skill to fly in the marginal wx.

Which brings us to......us. Sure we have plenty of technology that makes our jobs easier......

But let's not sell ourselves short......

After Sept 11th it has simply become more difficult and stressful to operate in the NAS. Our companies are requiring us to do more for less. And we have done it without significantly effecting the accident/incident rate. Something everyone in this industry has taken for granted.

When I think about the type of flying we do it is quite incredible; multi leg, all weather, quick turns, early morning, late evening, mx deferred, national security procedures and we do it consistently, every day. Not only do we do it effectively and efficiently, we do it with precision and without incident. I think that is pretty impressive. And it is something to be proud of.

 

[pilotyip]

Gann worked for American Airlines, the guy Slinger, (sp.?) who he went to work for flying the DC-4's to Hawaii was American Airlines #1 seniority when he quit to start the Matson Airline. I am a lucky guy to still get to push the DC-3 around the sky. Every trip is an adventure. Recently flew a bunch of people from YIP to Oshkosh to pick up parts for the B-17. In the clouds, bumps, rain into the cockpit, 80 kt ground speed shift, this is really something in a 135 Kt TAS airplane. Seeing his room where he did a great part of his writing at the EAA museum in OSH is a not to miss.

 

[Huck]

I also love the restored "Chicken Coop" in the EAA museum.

His best book was "The High and the Mighty." Should be required reading before any CRM course. It was made into a Duke Wayne movie. Finally to be released on DVD this summer.

I've got a still from the movie: Wayne in a white airline uniform and hat, walking down the aisle of the DC-6, a look on his face that says he knows they're in trouble. They don't make men like that any more.

In the lobby of the American Training Center in DFW is a picture of a huge banquet in New York after the war, honoring the American pilots who flew full-time for the war effort. Gann's probably in the picture, but you can't spot him.

We can point out his ego (and the egos of all the old birds out there), but I'll tell you one thing: those old hard ba$tards wouldn't have taken their belts and shoes off in front of their passengers. And you wouldn't have had the guts to ask. As I said, they don't make men like that any more.

 

[radarlove]

Do NOT, under any circumstances, EVER dis Ernie Gann! He was doin' this $hit before most of us were even a thought! If you think Fate is the Hunter is BS you obviously don't know your history.

I don't think the whole thing was BS, it's just that my BS meter came off the peg during the fifth or sixth time he was landing below minimums while on fire or whatever. I've caught fire twice, both times it was gorgeous VFR. Think back to the number of low, low, low approaches you shoot in a year.

And don't give me any of "it was different back then", 'cause it wasn't that different. Well, the overseas stuff was weird, but I've done my share of pounding along through the ice and thunderstorms in piston twins with no radar and crappy ice boots shooting NDB approaches, while packed to the gills with freight. So my "hero meter" didn't exactly peg out, especially when it becomes clear that most of his life-threatening emergencies were self-created, as life-threatening emergencies tend to be, when it comes to airplanes.

Since I flew piston twins in Northern Minnesota in the Winter and lost an engine, am I now "the man" too?

 

[warbirdfinder]

Not sure, but I believe he went to work for Trans Ocean.

 

[Floyd R. Turbo]

.....

 

[Ty Webb]

RadarLove:

After reading 3 of Gann's books and 3 of your posts, it is clear that you are an idiot that isn't even fit to lick his boots.

Please refrain from further posting until you have acquired some knowlege of what this industry has gone through, you intolerable putz.

PS., Ernie Gann had underwear with more flight time than you have.

 

[T1bubba]

And don't give me any of "it was different back then",

You obviously have no idea just how many aircraft used to crash "back then." Flying of any kind used to be a very dangerous proposition.

If you think Gann was full of BS, I guess de Saint Expuery's books must have been complete fabrications. After all, how many crashes can a guy survive?

 

[plattsburgher]

I think you missed the point of the whole book. He wasn't saying he was the hero, he was saying he was no different than anyone else, including all those who didn't live to retirement, just luckier that day.

You should also consider all of the rules that we have that they didn't have to keep out of trouble: good chart coverage, crew rest, oxygen rules, thunderstorm avoidance, etc. You can almost see the rule book being written as they encounter these hazards.

 

[fokkers&beer]

Gann is a god. Go fly radials for a while, then come talk to me. Guy Murchie (the world aloft) is also a good read, St Ex is a little dry for me, but a must read anyway.

I imagine this thread had to start as flame bait, no one can really be that ignorant.

 

[njcapt]

LearLove:

After reading 3 of Gann's books and 3 of your posts, it is clear that you are an idiot that isn't even fit to lick his boots.

Please refrain from further posting until you have acquired some knowlege of what this industry has gone through, you intolerable putz. Bill Lear would pull it out and slap you with it, you pathetic ass-clown.

LearLove might have a little heartburn over your talking smack about him, since he has yet to post to this thread.

 

[bafanguy]

But now I'm almost done and finally my BS meter went off... he spends a lot of time as the hero, let me tell you.

radarlove,

If only half of what Gann describes is true for him personally, it'll give you a first-hand account of what it was like. That alone would be worth the read.

Perhaps you've not had to chance to sit down with some of the pilots who did the things Gann describes in the book and listen to their stories. If you didn't have any heroes before that opportunity, you would afterward. We all stand rather safely and comfortably on the shoulders of what these guys did for aviation and they deserve our respect, not our doubts. I suppose that not being there, it's hard to fathom what actually happened and what it took to be a part of it...both during WW2 and in airline flying post-war.

I was fortunate to fly with a bunch of these Gann-type folks and I still admit to child-like awe at these men. They thought nothing of getting in a B17 with only 300 hours total time and flying over to Europe...flying C46's over the Hump...flying fighters in the Pacific after checking themselves out in a new type that was dropped off at the base along with the manual.

Post war, they came back and flew DC3's, CV240's, and C46's with limited comm/navaids, engines with too many moving parts, little ice protection, and no wx radar, waiting for the lightening flashes at night to see where to penetrate the line. A few even flew for some of the major European carriers, or Iran Air, or Saudi in the '50's, or were in some startup carriers or freight airlines, or non-skeds in the USA.

When you flew with these guys, you were flying with SOMEBODY. They were the survivors...no bragging or BS...they just knew a lot of stuff and if you prompted enough, they'd tell you about it.

I guess my experience was a bit of the reverse of yours...I flew with these guys THEN read the book. If you don't know anyone like these guys yet, hurry up and find a few as their numbers are dwindling. After closing down the bar with them, Gann's book will take on a new reality for you.

 

[LearLove]

UMMMM I didn't post anything. I think somebody got the name wrong. In ref to Gann, I have most of his books, if not all, collected thru ebay and other sources and if you search back in my posts you will see what I've posted about him and his work.

yeah, like i'd really say that being as I'm sitting 2 feet from a bookshelf that has 14 of his books in it that I read regulary.

 

[cubflyr]

Went to the AA museum @ DFW some years ago. They had a display case full of Ernest K. Gann's memorabilia, including one of his logbooks. The logbook was opened to the page with the entry labeled "ICE". A very humbling moment to stand and view that.
Gann was flying for Trans Ocean when Island in the Sky and The High and the Mighty was filmed. They provided the aircraft & Gann was the technical director for both films. Read the book "Folded Wings". Good history of Trans Ocean Airlines (TALOA).

 

[91100 100 set]

LearLove:

After reading 3 of Gann's books and 3 of your posts, it is clear that you are an idiot that isn't even fit to lick his boots.

Please refrain from further posting until you have acquired some knowlege of what this industry has gone through, you intolerable putz. Bill Lear would pull it out and slap you with it, you pathetic ass-clown.

Easy there sporto. Learlove is not Radarlove. Lear's been there and has been on this ride for quite some time now. I'd suggest you take your own advice. And take a look in the mirror before you call anyone an intolerable putz and a pathetic ass clown.

 

[LearLove]

deleted..... thats just not nice