Fate is the Hunter

[AvJunke]

[QUOTE Still a good book, especially his day-to-day life descriptions, but ugh, he spends a lot of time as the hero, let me tell you.[/QUOTE]

Fate is the Hunter is a great book. The tone of the book is consistent with the style of the day; very Hemingway. There is a lot of bravado and embellishment in there but that makes for a great story. You know he had to have had some adventures flying during the burgeoning stages of the airline industry.
I was amazed at the consistencey of the industry in his day and ours. Nothing has changed. The one lesson that stood out to me was be careful of thinking the grass is greener on the other side because it is usually a mirage. Leaving his airline for the allure of being number 3 at a new airline put him in the unemployment line pretty quickly if I recall correctly. Nice read for anyone who hasn't checked it out.
This is one of the first threads I've seen in 4 years worth commenting on. I usually just enjoy watching you kids whine and bicker like a bunch of old women. It keeps me up to speed on our spectacular industry, so thanks for the melodrama.

Cheers!

 

[Crzipilot]

97 fine air was my roomate from college. Ernie said it better than I ever could.

Psycho, who are ya??? I was there to (f/o college), and had some dealings in the crash....

 

[Huck]

You guys correct me if wrong but the Fine Air crew checked all the uplocks they could see - but the ones in back were not up. Nothing you can do about that and a freight guy's worst nightmare. I used to ride bikes around cargo city right where they hit.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The air mail pilots were getting killed or fired for not flying in unsafe wx. Business managers were making the go (there was no no go). Finally the air mail pilots got together and said the next guy that gets fired we all quit. And they did.

The Army pilots took over and started dying.

Fast fwd to today. Trans States pilots are getting fired for being effective ALPA volunteers.

The problems of yesteryear are the problems of today. Same food different flavor.

The pioneers deserve our appreciation and repsect. We deserve our own self repsect.

 

[radarlove]

Its hard to ensure your cargo is secure when its been loaded by a bunch of Army soldiers and you are a civilian under military orders to make this flight and make it now. Could you have survived under such duress? There is a reason so many pilots died back in those days, and not all by what you would characterize as "stupid mistakes".

Ummm...yeah? I would have made sure my cargo was tied down? Mmmmhmmm? See, if you don't, that's suicidal, and as much as I love my country, military orders to makes this flight now aren't quite enough to cause me to commit suicide--which wouldn't help the army or me. I've stood up, stopped the process and required it be done correctly. Have you?

I can't believe you are actually defending Gann's taking off without secure cargo. That was a phck-up and he knew it and I knew it and you should know it, unless you're used to the rest of the world telling you how to load and fly an airplane where you are PIC.

And Publisher, you're right, I don't get your point about being an "aviator". Does that mean I have to worship at the altar of those who came before? You sound like one of those guys who dreams of "glory days" that never really existed. Again, I've flown with my share of cowl flaps, NDBs and ice on the wings and I personally believe only a fool would long for those days again. I ask again, if Gann was a hero for flying through the ice and landing below minimums, am I more or less of a hero for flying through the ice and not busting minimums? Am I really that far off thinking he was kind of a dumb puppy for not being more concientious in his weight and balance responsibilities? Every student pilot in the world has made the mistake of too hot and heavy, why do we cut Gann slack when he kept making the mistake? Three at my count, anyway. "Our fuel gauges were unreliable". Ok, go stick it, like you're supposed to. "I clambored over the parts of the tower to get to the cockpit" And didn't notice that there wasn't a single tie-down?

A common thread has been that things haven't really changed much from then 'till now, and that's true. Navigation has gotten better and backup systems and engines are more reliable, but judgement hasn't changed. The same things that would kill you back then will kill you today unless you do stuff right.

 

[Ty Webb]

Your post sounds like it was written by a 15 year old kid who is too stupid to know how little he knows, so he thinks everyone else is stupid. Grow up, learn some respect for those who have gone before you.

 

[patq1]

I'm sorry, this sentance made me retch for some reason.

Maybe because I've been there, done that, got the tee-shirt, lost friends, and enjoyed a bit of frostbite that I don't see any romance in what was a truly dangerous time. .

You've been there and done that, huh? I hope you aren't seriously comparing the flying that you have done to what Ernie Gann and the aviators of his day did. On your worst day it doesn't even come close; except in your most grandiose dreams. You need to find some of these men, now in there 80s or older and talk to them for a while. And no, my father would never willingly trade the 747-100 that he retired in for the China Clipper, Boeing 247, or DC-3 that he started his career in.

 

[BoilerUP]

Ummm...yeah? I would have made sure my cargo was tied down? Mmmmhmmm? See, if you don't, that's suicidal, and as much as I love my country, military orders to makes this flight now aren't quite enough to cause me to commit suicide--which wouldn't help the army or me. I've stood up, stopped the process and required it be done correctly. Have you?

I can't believe you are actually defending Gann's taking off without secure cargo. That was a phck-up and he knew it and I knew it and you should know it, unless you're used to the rest of the world telling you how to load and fly an airplane where you are PIC.

I tend to agree with Ty...how old are you, 12? A WAR WAS GOING ON, MAN! I guarantee you would not have looked an Army officer in the eye in 1942 and told him you were not going to fly an overweight airplane, or an airplane with unsecured cargo, into an unfamiliar area with poor charts (if any) and unknown weather because it wasn't safe and "in your best interest". You are lying to us and yourself if you believe that.

If you want to criticize Gann's actions thats fine, as he never claims he was God's gift to aviation. You however, my friend, need to get over yourself. Your vast, superior knowledge to what is smart flying and common sense is derived directly from the experiences, and yes, mistakes, of those pilots who flew before you. You really should respect that.

 

[radarlove]

You've been there and done that, huh? I hope you aren't seriously comparing the flying that you have done to what Ernie Gann and the aviators of his day did. On your worst day it doesn't even come close; except in your most grandiose dreams..

NDBs are different now? Cowl flaps are different? Non-radar environment is different? Wing boots are different? Ice is different? Feathering a prop is different?

I spent two months flying an airplane built in 1940. P.O.S. it was. I spent 2,000 hours flying in a non-radar environment. Yes, I contend that in some cases (scheduled passenger transport not included) things have simply not changed that much.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

pi·lotn.
One who operates or is licensed to operate an aircraft in flight.
Nautical. One who, though not belonging to a ship's company, is licensed to conduct a ship into and out of port or through dangerous waters. The helmsman of a ship.

or

a·vi·a·tor n.
One who operates an aircraft; a pilot.


The Navy called thier aircraft operators aviators because they also had boat pilots.

Not all pilots are aviators but all aviators are pilots.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes, I contend that in some cases (scheduled passenger transport not included) things have simply not changed that much.

I think you should go back to wearing your aluminum foil head protection while in flight.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I started in this silly game just under 30 years ago flying DC-3s in the Carribean and Central America, VFR & uncontrolled IFR, no radar and no clue. The typical "dispatch release" was "here's $5K, bring the plane home in three days and account for every penny you spend kid".

I now fly an Airbus 319 and am nearing retirement. I'm here to tell you Radar Love that things have most certainly changed. OBTW, I have 7 engine failures in over 20K hours. Five of them were in the DC-3, while my TT in that plane is only 1,200 hours. I'll take a V1 cut in the 3 over a dual MCDU latch up anyday!

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Oh yeah, this thread was about Fate is the Hunter and Ernie Gann. It was required reading for a type rating in the DC 3 back in the day. The first question the examiner asked was if I had read the book. In my opinion still one of the best aviation classics ever.

 

[ivauir]

You've been there and done that, huh? I hope you aren't seriously comparing the flying that you have done to what Ernie Gann and the aviators of his day did. On your worst day it doesn't even come close; except in your most grandiose dreams. You need to find some of these men, now in there 80s or older and talk to them for a while. And no, my father would never willingly trade the 747-100 that he retired in for the China Clipper, Boeing 247, or DC-3 that he started his career in.

Go fly in Africa or South America and tell me how much aviation (or the rest of life for that matter) has changed. Not an ounce of disrespect for those who have gone before, because the vast majority of flying in the world today IS vastly different. But challenging and dangerous flying is still out there - the difference is that back then ALL flying was challenging and dangerous.... oh and today the knowledge of how it should be done is out there, these guys were making it up as they went along because there was no one to tell them how it should or even could be done.

 

[pilotyip]

Round Engines

Round engines make you a good single engine pilot, in just over 1000 hours of round engine time 1820/1830 I have had four inflight shutdowns. 2 on the 1820 and 2 on the 1830. One a total failure at 400' night hard IFR, scary! three precautionary inflight save the engine shutdowns. You think about it on every takeoff. I have to say jets are easier to fly, but take a lot more time to learn.