Fate is the Hunter

[oldxfr8dog]

Radarlove:

You have no respect!

Yeah, I spent many hours poopin' my pants, loaded up with ice over 12,000 ft. MEA's in recip twins.

But!

We are standing on the shoulders of giants. You think you were born with all that "pilot knowledge"? Somebody gave you a clue. Somebody gave you that "pilot attitude". Somebody knew "somebody" that died passing that info/lore along.

You are standing on the shoulders of giants. And bragging about how "tall" you are...
Our procedures and culture are written in blood. (As well as our checklists...)

 

[Donsa320]

Radarlove:

You have no respect!

Yeah, I spent many hours poopin' my pants, loaded up with ice over 12,000 ft. MEA's in recip twins.

But!

We are standing on the shoulders of giants. You think you were born with all that "pilot knowledge"? Somebody gave you a clue. Somebody gave you that "pilot attitude". Somebody knew "somebody" that died passing that info/lore along.

You are standing on the shoulders of giants. And bragging about how "tall" you are...
Our procedures and culture are written in blood. (As well as our checklists...)

Well said man.

I saw "Island in the Sky", the movie, in the base theater at Reese AFB while I was an Aviation Cadet in 1953. It inspired me. A year later, in 1954, I saw "The High and the Mighty" as a new USAF pilot and it inspired me even more.

Yesterday I ordered both of those from Amazon.com for August release and I can hardly wait to see them again. And I will be moved by them again after 32,000 hours of my own flying.

~DC

 

[patq1]

NDBs are different now? Cowl flaps are different? Non-radar environment is different? Wing boots are different? Ice is different? Feathering a prop is different?

Yeah, actually they were. I believe, and someone else can correct me, but the early NDB approaches were flown with a direction finder where you had to turn the loop yourself. Besides that the receivers today are better and more reliable. Also many of the approaches that he spoke about in the book were low frequency range approaches. There aren't many people left that have flown any of those. And pilots actually still had to know how to use a sextant. It was just a bit different. Once again, look at the list at the beginning of the book and tell me again how it's all the same today. I guess all of the guys on that list just weren't as good a pilot as you are.

 

[BD King]

Yeah, actually they were. I believe, and someone else can correct me, but the early NDB approaches were flown with a direction finder where you had to turn the loop yourself. Besides that the receivers today are better and more reliable. Also many of the approaches that he spoke about in the book were low frequency range approaches. There aren't many people left that have flown any of those. And pilots actually still had to know how to use a sextant. It was just a bit different. Once again, look at the list at the beginning of the book and tell me again how it's all the same today. I guess all of the guys on that list just weren't as good a pilot as you are.

Very nice post. You are indeed correct. Unless I counted wrong, there are 350 names at the beginning of the book. They are listed as "To these old comrades with wings...Forever folded." Fifty one were from American Airlines. Gann's company. The probability is that he met each one. He probably knew others from other carriers, as for example, he knew Bob Buck (TWA, alive and well)...Think about it. How many guys do you know bought it? In my case, I knew twenty six. Now that does not mean we sent Christmas cards each year, but could at least say hi and how's the kids. That number pales to Gann's, and quite possibly to others on this silly forum.

You really make me feel old with the statement about range leg approaches. Curb your tongue. I ain't that old..........I do not regret their demise, but by God they had flavor. The cone of silence was deafening....Come to think of it, maybe I do miss it. T'was a challenge to the bowels and one's patience..Amber Airways were indeed different.

As times became modern, we became really fancy. We could transmit on approach or tower and listen on the localizer freq. Had to. Only had one transmitter and one, and only one, receiver. Actually, only had five or seven transmitting crystals.

I will shut up now.


www.bdkingpress.com

 

[FlyChicaga]

It is so awesome to hear some of the "old timers" participating in this thread. I wish they'd participate more in the boards. Sadly, we could learn so much from them, but are too busy bitching about Mesa's contract or dealing with flamebait posters to sit and listen. I know I at least feel that way. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm starting to believe all the "old timers" don't want to put up with all the immaturity, so they hide in the shadows. I hope more come out to "tell us how it is" so we can learn from them.

I only wish I had some "old timers" around to talk to and learn from when I was younger and just getting started in flying. I think it could have done wonders. At least some have written books we can read, and re-read, for a long time.

 

[patq1]

Very nice post. You are indeed correct. Unless I counted wrong, there are 350 names at the beginning of the book. They are listed as "To these old comrades with wings...Forever folded." Fifty one were from American Airlines. Gann's company. The probability is that he met each one. He probably knew others from other carriers, as for example, he knew Bob Buck (TWA, alive and well)...Think about it. How many guys do you know bought it? In my case, I knew twenty six. Now that does not mean we sent Christmas cards each year, but could at least say hi and how's the kids. That number pales to Gann's, and quite possibly to others on this silly forum.

You really make me feel old with the statement about range leg approaches. Curb your tongue. I ain't that old..........I do not regret their demise, but by God they had flavor. The cone of silence was deafening....Come to think of it, maybe I do miss it. T'was a challenge to the bowels and one's patience..Amber Airways were indeed different.

As times became modern, we became really fancy. We could transmit on approach or tower and listen on the localizer freq. Had to. Only had one transmitter and one, and only one, receiver. Actually, only had five or seven transmitting crystals.

I will shut up now.


www.bdkingpress.com

I heard the stories from my father and his friends about the range approaches and all sorts of other interesting things, including the lighted airway beacons. As far as the list is concerned, I recognize 4 or 5 names as friends of my fathers that he used to talk about. He probably knew most of the other UAL names. I know of at least one occasion where the company asked him to tell the family because they were friends.

I checked out your website. I need to order a copy of Hostage to Fortune. Thanks.

Pat

 

[Captain Overs]

It is so awesome to hear some of the "old timers" participating in this thread. I wish they'd participate more in the boards. Sadly, we could learn so much from them, but are too busy bitching about Mesa's contract or dealing with flamebait posters to sit and listen. I know I at least feel that way. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm almost feeling like all the "old timers" who really paved the way for us don't want to put up with all the immaturity, so they hide in the shadows. I hope more come out to "tell us how it is" so we can learn from them.

I only wish I had some "old timers" around to talk to and learn from when I was younger and just getting started in flying. I think it could have done wonders. At least some have written books we can read, and re-read, for a long time.

Who have you paved the way for? How can you say you "Almost feel like all the old timers.." Are you kidding me? You are basically a low time wonder pilot. You'll still be wet behind the ears for many years to come. Thanks for the laugh though.

 

[BD King]

I heard the stories from my father and his friends about the range approaches and all sorts of other interesting things, including the lighted airway beacons. As far as the list is concerned, I recognize 4 or 5 names as friends of my fathers that he used to talk about. He probably knew most of the other UAL names. I know of at least one occasion where the company asked him to tell the family because they were friends.

I checked out your website. I need to order a copy of Hostage to Fortune. Thanks.

Pat

Thanks. You will also find Robert Serling's THE LEFT SEAT. That book helped prompt standardization, but really deals with the old time humor and comradarie of the airlines prior to the jet age. Dean Smith's book, BY THE SEAT OF MY PANTS, is probably my favorite read after A HOSTAGE TO FORTUNE. It is somewhat of an obscure book, but by golly, you will think you have God as your co-pilot after you read it.

 

[BD King]

Who have you paved the way for? How can you say you "Almost feel like all the old timers.." Are you kidding me? You are basically a low time wonder pilot. You'll still be wet behind the ears for many years to come. Thanks for the laugh though.

Hey Captain Overs, I think you are a bit harsh here. Reread his post again.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Who have you paved the way for? How can you say you "Almost feel like all the old timers.." Are you kidding me? You are basically a low time wonder pilot. You'll still be wet behind the ears for many years to come. Thanks for the laugh though.

Did you even read what I said? Or do you just feel like you have some bone to pick? Twice now you have replied to posts of mine reading only what you want to hear, instead of what I wrote. Either that, or I suggest Sylvan Learning Centers. Obviously you have some major issue that it might be time to come to terms with. I might be an over-eager pilot dork, but I do know my place.

BDKing,

I just checked out your website, and bought "Hostage to Fortune", "The High and the Mighty", and "The Left Seat". Thank you for reproducing these books! I've gone to Barnes and Noble and Borders all over the country, every time getting on the computer and searching for Ernest K. Gann. No luck, minus "Fate Is The Hunter". I anxiously await delivery.

 

[Ty Webb]

It is so awesome to hear some of the "old timers" participating in this thread. I wish they'd participate more in the boards. Sadly, we could learn so much from them,

I agree, and I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the pilots on this board would, too. The other 10% . . . . . well, bunch of frickin' morons anyway .

 

[Captain Overs]

Even saying you "almost" feel like the old timers is a comparison you can't make. I heard what you said. Don't be so defensive. Enough said.

 

[Wasted]

Granted, it was a poorly worded run-on sentence, but you really did misread it.

What he wrote:
"I don't know about anyone else, but I'm almost feeling like all the "old timers", who really paved the way for us don't want to put up with all the immaturity, so they hide in the shadows."

Is the same as:
"I don't know about anyone else, but I believe that all the "old timers" who really paved the way for us don't want to put up with all the immaturity, so they hide in the shadows."

Which is much different than:
"I don't know about anyone else, but I'm almost feeling like all the "old timers", who really paved the way for us don't want to put up with all the immaturity, so they hide in the shadows."

Which is what you seem to have read it as. Notice that having the comma after "old timers" changes the meaning of the sentence. Somehow, you inserted a comma after "old timers" in your minds' eye as you read the sentence. He did not have a comma after "old timers".

So you probably should stand up and apologise to the kid.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Even saying you "almost" feel like the old timers is a comparison you can't make. I heard what you said. Don't be so defensive. Enough said.

I don't know what you heard, since I wrote it. You might need some time away from the computer. Try re-reading it without hoping to find something to be an asshole about. You'll see that's not even close to what I said. But what more should I expect? Looking at your posting history, they all reek of bitterness and contempt. Find your happy place, find your happy place...

I edited it with better english that hopefully will be easier for you to comprehend.

Anyways, back to the original thread. It's crap like this that I believe is driving away those guys who could really contribute to the boards. Not to mention ruining the career of "professional pilot."

 

[pilotyip]

where is good ole "English" when you need him

 

[FlyChicaga]

where is good ole "English" when you need him

You meant need "her", right?

 

[Morning Wood]

Has anyone read this book? It's about flying in the 40s and it started out fascinating--how little airline work has changed in 60 years, the same problem with crew schedulers, jerk captains, seniority, etc.

But now I'm almost done and finally my BS meter went off. He just described his fifteenth or twentieth harrowing, wings-on-fire, weather below minimums, out-of-gas skillful approach and landing. Either this guy spent his whole career wearing an instrument-training hood, or he found more bad weather than I've ever seen.

Still a good book, especially his day-to-day life descriptions, but ugh, he spends a lot of time as the hero, let me tell you.

Yeah. About the only thing that's changed is not having the internet back
then to call each other names and accuse one group or another of
dragging the profession down.

 

[pilotyip]

Isn't English a guy?

 

[FlyChicaga]

Not unless the boys fell off and grew back as boobs.

 

[jergar999]

Well, even if this thread has accomplished nothing else, I just ordered Fate is the Hunter. Hopefully it offers some new perspective, even though I'm not an airline pilot.

 

[bafanguy]

Well, if this thread has done nothing else it's encouraged some people, who might not have otherwise, to read Gann.


I can remember being in a class for recurrent a number of years ago where someone mentioned Gann in passing, without a particular reference to his fame. One of the junior birdmen asked, "Does he fly for us ?". He had actually never heard of Gann.

So, when you remove the sophmoric name calling, now some new people will enjoy reading Gann's work. Thats' a silver lining...

 

[Captain Overs]

I don't know what you heard, since I wrote it. You might need some time away from the computer. Try re-reading it without hoping to find something to be an asshole about. You'll see that's not even close to what I said. But what more should I expect? Looking at your posting history, they all reek of bitterness and contempt. Find your happy place, find your happy place...

I edited it with better english that hopefully will be easier for you to comprehend.

Anyways, back to the original thread. It's crap like this that I believe is driving away those guys who could really contribute to the boards. Not to mention ruining the career of "professional pilot."

I thank you for editing your post. It is easier to understand. Maybe you should take some of that new raise you got from XJT and invest in some English lessons. You'd be amazed how your life would change if you could communicate in a complete sentence.

 

[ivauir]

You'd be amazed how your life would change if you could communicate in a complete sentence.

It would be nice if you could communicate without using the SCARF technique (sarcasm. criticism, antagonism, ridicule and fear). Seriously, you'd be amazed how your life would change if you didn't get in everybodies' face all of the time. Peace.

 

[Captain Overs]

(Yawn)

SCARF. I like that. Did you learn that working on your GED? Peace.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Everyone else seemed to understand. Maybe it's you with the reading problem? Here you go, this could help: http://www.educate.com/

 

[ATRCAPT]

It is so awesome to hear some of the "old timers" participating in this thread. I wish they'd participate more in the boards. Sadly, we could learn so much from them, but are too busy bitching about Mesa's contract or dealing with flamebait posters to sit and listen. I know I at least feel that way. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm starting to believe all the "old timers" don't want to put up with all the immaturity, so they hide in the shadows. I hope more come out to "tell us how it is" so we can learn from them.

I only wish I had some "old timers" around to talk to and learn from when I was younger and just getting started in flying. I think it could have done wonders. At least some have written books we can read, and re-read, for a long time.

We could ALL (that means you too radarlove) benefit from the wealth of information these old gentleman have. It's a wise man who learns from history.

 

[BD King]

tis a bump

 

[flyingitalian]

T
Ernest K. Gann happened to be a gifted writer (Band of Brothers, The High and the Mighty). From my limited experience I would be willing to wager that most people who have made it to be professional pilots are some of the most capable members of society. I have no doubt that the people who I have flown with could contribute as much to society as Mr. Gann did.

While Gann is a great writer he die not write Band of Brother, Ambose did.

 

[BD King]

While Gann is a great writer he die not write Band of Brother, Ambose did.

Sorry Buddy. Gann used the title years before Ambrose. Previously, I mentioned that a title cannot be copyrighted. Gann used it years before. You also have to realize that Ambrose was slamed for using other people's works, and he in essence admitted the same before his death...........BAND OF BROTHERS was a Ernie Gann title. .............Ambrose followed. Check it out at the library of congress. You can do it on line.

 

[BD King]

As this thread does a grave yard spiral, somewhere it was mentioned that Ernie Gann notes about 350 people that died.....bought the farm, if you will......at the beginning of FATE IS THE HUNTER. In his book FLYING CIRCUS, Gann does an elequent tale of the first person that he knew who "bought the farm".

Hank was in his mid thirties and was secure in his slot as a GM manager. But he had this stupid idea that he wanted an airport. An airport at his back yard. He bought this Tri-Pacer from a fellow who I had known for my entire life. Serial #2. 125 hp. Most folks don't know that the first few Tri-Pacers were that under powered.

Hank now had a 4 place aircraft for his 2200 foot airport and then a Luscombe. And then a Champ, warped prop and all, that I brought back for him late one June evening.

Hank had it rolling. Three airplanes, office, four T-Hangars, and a little flight school, and me to do the elbow grease work.

In July, I left for about 10 days. When arriving back I met two very sober parents. Hank had bought the farm......He had let a student kill him in a pre-war Taylorcraft. He bled out in the right seat.

Hank was number one of many to come. I was sixteen years old.........Fate IS The Hunter. Take care.


www.bdkingpress.com