Farquaad fiddled while OneSky burned

[Mach94]

You need to do a little research. It absolutely has been tried before, and it does nullify our bargaining rights if we allow them to do that. It must be negotiated and in a letter of agreement.

FUD. Obviously, if the union signs the LOA the company provided it is in agreement and nullifies nothing and lets those pilots get their VSP. No, it wouldn't have everything the union wants. As stated, some of those wants are ridiculous, but it does give the union something - a VSP to those who want it that is granted by a company under no obligation to even give any. The union's actions have only created a lose-lose situation for it and its pilots and the company still furloughs anyway. Real genius move, there.


FUD!

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Mach.094, you are very slow to catch on.

 

[Mach94]

Yeah? Well, when the decert vote is finished and the 1108 goes bye bye, all because the union wanted to take the VSP from its own pilots, we'll see who was slow to catch on. Carry on, minion.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Name calling already? Just adds to your credibility.

 

[Mach94]

Hmm. I have 24 posts. I was called names from my first one for simply voicing my opinion on something that for other than a union minion, is a legitimate and true reality. Being called a management kronie, tool, or FoK. Union minion seems appropriate to me based on those responses. I couldn't possibly be a MiGs and think outside the box that the union tries to put is all in. Apparently you are not allowed a voice if you are to be a MiGs. And just think. Flexjet is seeing this. Seeing what happens to one of the union's own who speaks up and says hey, what the hell are you doing?! It's a mistake. Stop!

You need a kleenex or something? Get over it. "Minion" is being polite. The union is attempting to cost many of us about to lose our jobs a years' pay for idiotic reasons with nothing but FUD for weak explanations as to why. All it is doing is pissing us off more. This has become very personal, and I am not the only MiGs who is now more pissed off at the union than I am the company. So go ahead. Attempt to ostracize those of us who have varying opinions to the union minions. See what that does. (That would be a troll statement. Your fault if you take the bait.)

 

[Club ORD FO]

Mach do you think it's possible that the judge will simply tell both sides to sit down on work out an agreement? An agreed upon VSP may still happen...?

 

[greygoose]

An agreed upon VSP may still happen...?

No, writing a LOA leaves a open door every time a furlough happens in the future. The Co, may not want to offer that anymore since it was a one time offer. Clearly makes sense why the Co. didn't want to sign off on a LOA.
Literally the Fri before the VSP offer expires the Union is notified of overstaffed X and 400 capts. Sad part is it took the Union till Sunday to realease this information to the group. This gave the next 16 pilots at the bottom one days time to get their decision in, all while the Union sat in it for two days.

Side note, I do find it interesting that 40 were furloughed 24 on the street. 16 are at Flex still working, but is now 16 overstaffed in two fleets brining the total count to 40 again. Coincidence? My personal belief is I have to agree, there is going to be slow and sudden chops to the Options list and eventually shut It down. Everyone will go begging for a VSP when it comes to their number and will be turned down.

 

[shanes123]

Trying to bargain a return for people taking a VSP is just plain stupid. If that's the case I will take a 20 year VSP. Full pay and benefits please. Also would like the per diiem and CC to charge my meals 16 days a month.
You're negotiating for a group that is looking to leave and never return. Their entitled to nothing. Anything would be better than that. If I was the company my offer would have been half of what their giving. This was a serious wrong move by the union and they need to acknowledge and live up to it and try and fix it. Let these VSP people go. Who give a FK save the guys on the bottom that have families, mortgages, medical bills...

 

[doh]

No, writing a LOA leaves a open door every time a furlough happens in the future. The Co, may not want to offer that anymore since it was a one time offer. Clearly makes sense why the Co. didn't want to sign off on a LOA.
Literally the Fri before the VSP offer expires the Union is notified of overstaffed X and 400 capts. Sad part is it took the Union till Sunday to realease this information to the group. This gave the next 16 pilots at the bottom one days time to get their decision in, all while the Union sat in it for two days.

Side note, I do find it interesting that 40 were furloughed 24 on the street. 16 are at Flex still working, but is now 16 overstaffed in two fleets brining the total count to 40 again. Coincidence? My personal belief is I have to agree, there is going to be slow and sudden chops to the Options list and eventually shut It down. Everyone will go begging for a VSP when it comes to their number and will be turned down.

Let's get something straight. The union didn't sit on a thing! Management, those slimy aholes, sat on the letter and tossed it on the table when they were supposed to be meeting to negotiate fences. But because they are lying scumbags, they put that out instead of sticking to what they promised to negotiate. They knew they were going to execute the furlough months ago! But instead of giving proper notice, they sat on it. And because they sat on it, the union's initial response assumed it was a leave of absence. So their initial response was recall rights. You see, when management lies and deceives, honest people may not be clear on what the scumbags are trying to accomplish. Good faith negotiations would have alleviated that, but aholes like our management are incapable of decent human behavior. This has nothing to do with the union. This is all a product of scumbag management. If you two can't see that, then there is nothing that will help you.

 

[slowtation capt]

What is really puzzling here, this debate, argument, whatever. Why in the world does this occur only when some feels the Union did something wrong. Never do I see anyone here or on the vuh get as fired up about something and there have been plenty of things that management has done.

 

[shanes123]

No one has defended management on anything. And I would think most pilots expect nothing from management but the usual screw job, this is our union and their suppose to be doing right by the pilot group. This was not doing right by the pilots and I don't wanna hear the BS defending the CBA. The CBA could have been defended and the VSP accepted.

 

[Mach94]

Let's get something straight. The union didn't sit on a thing! Management, those slimy aholes, sat on the letter and tossed it on the table when they were supposed to be meeting to negotiate fences. But because they are lying scumbags, they put that out instead of sticking to what they promised to negotiate. They knew they were going to execute the furlough months ago! But instead of giving proper notice, they sat on it. And because they sat on it, the union's initial response assumed it was a leave of absence. So their initial response was recall rights. You see, when management lies and deceives, honest people may not be clear on what the scumbags are trying to accomplish. Good faith negotiations would have alleviated that, but aholes like our management are incapable of decent human behavior. This has nothing to do with the union. This is all a product of scumbag management. If you two can't see that, then there is nothing that will help you.

No one is disputing that, doh. You are absolutely right. Two wrongs do not however make a right, and right after management did that scumbag thing the union did its own scumbag thing and are attempting to take the VSP away from the pilots. The union is culpable for that part of it and no, most of us affected or about to be affected by the furlough don't buy the lame-ass excuse of the CBA being thrown out the window if the union had just signed off on the LOA and let the pilots get some f'ing money on their way out the door, because most of us have no intention of coming back after this one. The company probably won't even exist in 18 months anyway.

Stop pointing at management. Yes, management are scumbags. Yes, they caused this. Yes, they are culpable. And yes, the union took the bait and Ricci now gets what he wanted. Destroyed unity and solidarity. The union sacrificed its queen to take a pawn. Idiotic move. And now, the union is culpable for using the furloughs as a pawn in their game to try to force the company to the negotiating table. The union already has plenty of ammunition to get management to do that. They didn't have to sacrifice a year of pay. And no, it won't be forgotten or forgiven!

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lawsuit filed by the furloughed pilots against the IBT for this if the union is successful in blocking the VSP for unfairly representing the pilots going on furlough. If I am furloughed and my VSP is denied because of this I know I would, and I would seek more than one years' salary for damages.

 

[doh]

And they will lose the lawsuit. Because your premise is dead wrong. I'm not calling you any names or anything of the sort, but you are dead wrong. You are blaming the wrong group, for the wrong reasons. And by doing so, you are deliberately sowing disunity. And that is dead wrong. And no, it was not wrong on our representative's part to insist on negotiations for a separation program. It was the only correct thing to do. And it is legally correct. So any lawsuit (isn't that Florian's little buttbuddy airhead no's idea?) will fail miserably.

 

[doh]

Here's what would have happened if our reps had accepted the vsp. Management would have said not enough people accepted it, and they would have furloughed anyway. This is a political act on management's part. They are hell bent on causing as much pain and stress to the pilots as they can. So no matter what had happened, they would have put people on the street.

 

[Mach94]

Says you. We will find out won't we? And what do you say when the company starts making those payments anyway until a judge stops them from doing so? That this was their plan all along? How convenient.

As for the disunity, look around you. The disunity you speak of didn't start until the union started trying to take money from the pilots. You can't expect union solidarity from guys you are taking $100k right out of their pockets for BS political, strategical reasons that do not benefit those now without a job. That's completely on the union. Cause and effect.