FAPA President, "Happy with the outcome."

[GuppyWN]

Let's get something clear here. I am eager to see the F9/RAH deal fail. I'm eager to see all of the competition fail. This is better for the company I chose to work for. Not because I have friends there and I want to say "I told you so", but because they are the competition. You're stoned if you think I don't want my company to beat the ever loving piss out of the competition. This benefits me in that it would theoretically provide additional job security. In the same way every old dick at UAL, AA, DAL, etc think SWA is still a "lil outfit from Texas" and would love to see us dead today. This isn't personal, it's business. Ask the attorneys you know how they feel when they're at trial and competing against the other side. Or the guy that manages a fund of funds. You think he cares about the other guy in New York? He'd bury him if it meant a .0001% gain for HIS clients. Everybody has to get over the koombaya BULLSCHIT and realize we are all competitors.

Granted, we do the same thing for a living, but that's about it. I'm sure most of you are great guys and gals and would be cool to have a beer with. But this does not mean I care if you lose your job because your company and/or union makes bad decisions. I care personally about my friends slugging out in this environment at shady outfits or poorly run (read: bankrupt) carriers. Job loss sucks. I'm not callous to the fact that such an event can devastate a person or a family having been through it (3 times) myself. But this is business people! Plain and simple. Please don't confuse being a vicious competitor with being a prick. One thing I have learned at SWA is they spread the luv internally (that sounds horrifically pornographic) but when it comes to the competition, there is a collective spirit and undaunted cohesiveness that I have yet to see at any company. Be it in the airline world or outside of it. These people view any competition as a threat and have that mindset that threats should be dealt with accordingly. It's like being part of a Superbowl team as opposed to a random collection of has-beens playing football in the park. These people get up every day with intent of not only moving pax from A to B, but to compete as mightily as possible to gain every passenger possible. ALways. Every damn day.

When I went through training a few years ago I was a little surprised at the tone regarding the competition that was being espoused on a daily basis at the training center. It wasn't "we're better than airline X" or "airline X is crap because of this or that". It was "we don't care who they are. They all tried to run us out of business before we even got started and they've all been trying to do it since. They are all out to get us and we will not let that happen." And I realized these people are serious. And they have been since Herb and Lamar started the whole deal. They (mgmt.)want to, and want the employees to, do an outstanding job every day and in the process beat the crap out of every one they compete with. And yes. It all ties in to that overused word, culture. It's not a joke, or a tagline, or a cliche. It's a way of thinking and a way of operating. If you're here you're family, if you're not here, you're the competition. There is no gray area.

This doesn't mean one anonymous pilot hates another anonymous pilot. It just means I/we want to win. I mean why the hell did I get up this morning the first place? Life is a competition, Play it WELL!

I wish everyone good luck and Godspeed. Hopefully and does all work itself out and the casualties are low or non-existent.

Holy sh!t!!! I'm glad I'm on your side.

Gup

 

[Indapool]

Let's get something clear here. I am eager to see the F9/RAH deal fail. I'm eager to see all of the competition fail. This is better for the company I chose to work for. Not because I have friends there and I want to say "I told you so", but because they are the competition. You're stoned if you think I don't want my company to beat the ever loving piss out of the competition. This benefits me in that it would theoretically provide additional job security. In the same way every old dick at UAL, AA, DAL, etc think SWA is still a "lil outfit from Texas" and would love to see us dead today. This isn't personal, it's business. Ask the attorneys you know how they feel when they're at trial and competing against the other side. Or the guy that manages a fund of funds. You think he cares about the other guy in New York? He'd bury him if it meant a .0001% gain for HIS clients. Everybody has to get over the koombaya BULLSCHIT and realize we are all competitors.

Granted, we do the same thing for a living, but that's about it. I'm sure most of you are great guys and gals and would be cool to have a beer with. But this does not mean I care if you lose your job because your company and/or union makes bad decisions. I care personally about my friends slugging out in this environment at shady outfits or poorly run (read: bankrupt) carriers. Job loss sucks. I'm not callous to the fact that such an event can devastate a person or a family having been through it (3 times) myself. But this is business people! Plain and simple. Please don't confuse being a vicious competitor with being a prick. One thing I have learned at SWA is they spread the luv internally (that sounds horrifically pornographic) but when it comes to the competition, there is a collective spirit and undaunted cohesiveness that I have yet to see at any company. Be it in the airline world or outside of it. These people view any competition as a threat and have that mindset that threats should be dealt with accordingly. It's like being part of a Superbowl team as opposed to a random collection of has-beens playing football in the park. These people get up every day with intent of not only moving pax from A to B, but to compete as mightily as possible to gain every passenger possible. ALways. Every damn day.

When I went through training a few years ago I was a little surprised at the tone regarding the competition that was being espoused on a daily basis at the training center. It wasn't "we're better than airline X" or "airline X is crap because of this or that". It was "we don't care who they are. They all tried to run us out of business before we even got started and they've all been trying to do it since. They are all out to get us and we will not let that happen." And I realized these people are serious. And they have been since Herb and Lamar started the whole deal. They (mgmt.)want to, and want the employees to, do an outstanding job every day and in the process beat the crap out of every one they compete with. And yes. It all ties in to that overused word, culture. It's not a joke, or a tagline, or a cliche. It's a way of thinking and a way of operating. If you're here you're family, if you're not here, you're the competition. There is no gray area.

This doesn't mean one anonymous pilot hates another anonymous pilot. It just means I/we want to win. I mean why the hell did I get up this morning the first place? Life is a competition, Play it WELL!

I wish everyone good luck and Godspeed. Hopefully and does all work itself out and the casualties are low or non-existent.

Thats probably going to sound pretty arrogant to those outside the "Clan", and the WN haters heads are going to explode. (I don't care)

I agree with you on alot of it. It's a "culture" thing.
But the choice has been made and the F9 guys will have to sort out their own future. Seems they chose the wolf in the woods over the bear at the door, time will tell.

 

[StopNTSing]

It has recently become my tagline: speaking truth to ignorance is NOT being arrogant! :beer:

 

[The Prussian]

.


When I went through training a few years ago I was a little surprised at the tone regarding the competition that was being espoused on a daily basis at the training center. It wasn't "we're better than airline X" or "airline X is crap because of this or that". It was "we don't care who they are. They all tried to run us out of business before we even got started and they've all been trying to do it since. They are all out to get us and we will not let that happen." And I realized these people are serious. And they have been since Herb and Lamar started the whole deal. They (mgmt.)want to, and want the employees to, do an outstanding job every day and in the process beat the crap out of every one they compete with. And yes. It all ties in to that overused word, culture. It's not a joke, or a tagline, or a cliche. It's a way of thinking and a way of operating. If you're here you're family, if you're not here, you're the competition. There is no gray area.

Is this the message you got in training??? At Southwest??? It's not the message that I got. If this is the message coming out of training,...I don't want to hear it. To me, the message, if there was one, was "just do your part, every day, to the best of your ability, and it will pay off in the end!" That is a message I can espouse, and one I can embrace.

BTW,...do you really work for Southwest????

 

[Quiet Flight]

Yes. I do.

It wasn't Hitler Youth type stuff, just "we have been the underdog FOREVER and are still thought of that way". There were no forced marches down the hall with Bob Torti or anything. More of a "Red Bellied Warbird" kinda pep talk atmosphere. I did not intend to sound militant or vengeful. I did intend however to try and dispell the notion that we are all "brothers" in arms because we happen to have chosen the same profession. It's just ludicrous to me that people think that way.

 

[Captainzero1]

I thought RAH goal is to fly e 190's and not airbus'.

 

[SELCAL checks]

Yes. I do.

It wasn't Hitler Youth type stuff, just "we have been the underdog FOREVER and are still thought of that way". There were no forced marches down the hall with Bob Torti or anything. More of a "Red Bellied Warbird" kinda pep talk atmosphere. I did not intend to sound militant or vengeful. I did intend however to try and dispell the notion that we are all "brothers" in arms because we happen to have chosen the same profession. It's just ludicrous to me that people think that way.

Wow,

I remember being exposed to the company history during INDOC, and the story of the hardship and hard-fought battle for survival in the early years. However, I have never heard anything remotely cut-throat from anyone in the GO or in a management position when it comes to the competition. In fact, whenever the competition is mentioned, it is in a pleasant and complimentary manner.

I am 180 degrees from you on the "brothers in arms" mentality. Every pilot at every 121 carrier is my brother because we ARE in the same industry, we ARE all professionals, and we ALL fight for the same cause. Each group individually struggles to raise the bar, so that other groups can improve their own contracts and working conditions.

We are professionals flying airplanes safely from A to B. There is not much we can do about the direction our respective employers take our companies. We stand up for ourselves and our profession and continually seek to raise the bar... that's the only battle I'm concerned about.

 

[walkthasky]

I have no doubt SWA employees are a great group of people...just few clowns posting on here. We all have them.

Well said! I couldn't feel more differently about Frontier

 

[freightdogfred]

Wow,

I remember being exposed to the company history during INDOC, and the story of the hardship and hard-fought battle for survival in the early years. However, I have never heard anything remotely cut-throat from anyone in the GO or in a management position when it comes to the competition. In fact, whenever the competition is mentioned, it is in a pleasant and complimentary manner.

I am 180 degrees from you on the "brothers in arms" mentality. Every pilot at every 121 carrier is my brother because we ARE in the same industry, we ARE all professionals, and we ALL fight for the same cause. Each group individually struggles to raise the bar, so that other groups can improve their own contracts and working conditions.

We are professionals flying airplanes safely from A to B. There is not much we can do about the direction our respective employers take our companies. We stand up for ourselves and our profession and continually seek to raise the bar... that's the only battle I'm concerned about.

A voice of reason, finally. This "if you're not part of the family you're against us" mentality is crazy. Everybody's gotta eat, there's food for all.
Unless you're "one of the family" AKA "The Borg" (resistance is futile, you will be assimilated). Not all of us are gonna be "part of the family". Play nice, and don't try to ckblk us at Mr C's!

 

[stratus72]

This type of crap is one of many problems with our industry. WE don't want to make that kind of money doing more than just our flying. WE want that kind of money for what we already do, not with a second job. That kind of crap is what weakens our stance. People who treat this like a hobby.

If this was a "hobby" to me, I would have bailed years ago. I wouldn't care and that would be it. I love the job and the people. Some of us had a plan B years ago...not my fault I thought ahead.

 

[stratus72]

Well said! I couldn't feel more differently about Frontier

Wow, that's the best you have? An insult and a lame one at that? You really got me good.

 

[Empennage]

Morris vs Midwest

Gentlemen - I'll agree this whole thing is now a moot point.

However, in determining the end result, all one has to do is ask a former Morris Air pilot how life is today versus a former/current Midwest pilot how life is today.

 

[AnimalTale]

If this was a "hobby" to me, I would have bailed years ago. I wouldn't care and that would be it. I love the job and the people. Some of us had a plan B years ago...not my fault I thought ahead.

\

My FAPA brother,

Please look at this LOA that our Union approved. Use your Lawyer Smarts, take the emotions out and please let me know "HOW SCREWED WE ARE!".

I know it was not entirely up to FAPA but I think we blundered by not joining or getting STAPLED to SWA.

Be vocal about this deal, remember you are the Lawyer and at this time you can read all the loop-holes. MOVE AHEAD and lets make a bearable CBA.

CYA

 

[SWA/FO]

Have you guys gotten good communication from FAPA? Seems it happen to quick for anything real to happen, were you guys polled?

 

[climb2slow]

I think the communication has been pretty fair. Knowing your reps personally and having their cell phone numbers and them answer them to talk has made this more informative than it is sometimes. I am sure its not near as good as communication from almighty SWAPA...but that doesn't concern us I guess.

I have seen numerous web updates from the union folks on the FAPA website, both during the negotiations with SWAPA and now. Unfortunately in a negotiation, there is the assumption that both sides will be willing make concessions to get the deal done, and in this case I am not sure that was true.

Personally I was not keen on being stapled onto a seniority list so I could be the furlough fodder in a year or so. And as much as the SWA guys like to say how lucky the Morris guys are, if they were truly one family no one would even remember who they were...but apparently everyone knows who they are.

Are we going to be rolling the dice with Republic? Absolutely. Would we have been rolling the dice with Southwest? Absolutely. My hope is that when the F9 and Republic SLI negotiations take place, that we all realize that it can be a very positive turning point for the RAH group of airlines, or the beginning of the end for them all.

 

[climb2slow]

Have you guys gotten good communication from FAPA? Seems it happen to quick for anything real to happen, were you guys polled?

yes, it did...and no...were you going to be polled before the midnight deal ramming was set to be done? Seems unlikely.

 

[SWA/FO]

I was thinking maybe when SWA made they "non-binding bid" in July

 

[scoreboardII]

Morris guys are remembered because after they were hired they sued for more, and lost, hard to forget about that...

Otherwise, nobody cares who they are.

 

[ivauir]

Upgrades? What's that? What is it now at SWA? Probably about the same i would guess.

We have an upgrade class in session right now. It is only two pilots, but there is some movement.

Some were deemed to be "excess", and their recall rights were not included.

Inaccurate. The excess pilots had full recall rights and a seniority number at SWA.

I understand your team's stance, and your personal feelings on the matter. There is little point in arguing over what a "fair and equitable" integration should have looked like, but I do believe that your team passed over an excellent opportunity for their membership.

I'm glad the deal fell through because it is clear that there would have been bad blood between the two groups forever. Good luck.

 

[Murphy]

Whatever happened to Frontier and airTran joining up?