FAPA President, "Happy with the outcome."

[Popeye0537]

Anything can happen. you may be right. But seriously, if you had to bet money on which company (F9 or WN) will still be running 5 or 10 years from now, who can you honestly say you'd pick. No ill will to anyone, but WN's eggs are not all in the DEN basket.

Good Luck.

If I told you in 2004 that RAH would purchase Midwest and Frontier in 09 what would have told me? In 1995 would you have taken a job at UAL or WN? Times a changin

 

[AnimalTale]

If I told you in 2004 that RAH would purchase Midwest and Frontier in 09 what would have told me? In 1995 would you have taken a job at UAL or WN? Times a changin

Popeye,

It is time for me to (reluctantly: 130K to yank gear at SWA or 70K to be a CA @ at the "new republic") work and be part of the RAH team. So we will make the best of this and help RAISE "OUR" S^itty wages. Ok?

CYA

 

[The Victors]

SWA would have been great. I think FAPA "railroaded" the deal. SWAPA wanted to negotiate over the weekend and the creditors "ended" the auction before the "extended" talks and right after the UNION IMPASSE. Gary never had a chance, the creditors and Judge were always pro-RAH---->Besides, our UNION President was part of the Creditors' Committee (talk about conflict of Interest).

CYA

Finally, the voice of reason.

 

[luv2fly]

SWAFO, please go ask your MA committee about the recall rights of the "excess" FAPA pilots.

Half of our pilot group (captains) were going to lose QOL and remain at their current pay or experience a small raise. They simply did not want to become a furlough shock-absorber and sit reserve for the same or close to the same pay.

20% (at least), were going to be furloughed on "day one", and their recall rights were not clear.

The FO's that kept their jobs were the only ones that would have experienced any benefit.

Destroy an entire airline and put 4300 people on the street just so 150 FO's could get raises and a number at SWA?

If you are going to make a claim, I recommend that you go directly to the source within SWAPA and ensure the accuracy of your claim.

My post is 110% accurate.

Your post in not completely accurate. Recall rights are clearly defined in our CBA in which recalled F9 guys would fall under.

 

[luv2fly]

Good luck with THAT

Wow, paid over 100 million for F9, won't get any money back from the deal, and only had 94 million in the bank before the deal. Its getting interesting as the real details come out.

 

[BUDDHA145]

can we whait few weeks and see what will happend!!! I have never seen so many nostradamous and Mayan's in one place...including me. And for who ever wants to know when there will be any hiring classes, NON till all Midwest Frontier and RAH furghlous are call back.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well then I guess you guys made the right decision

They'll have to live with it... not you.... why are you concerned about F9 guys?

 

[Monster Buck]

RAH could offer the moon, I highly doubt any long term retention of those promises. Again looking long term, being on the SWA seniority list versus ANYTHING that the REGIONAL airline RAH has to offer.......seriously? You are out of your mind if this was even close to a hard choice. JMO but I think most all F9 pilots will look back on this moment with serious regret in the years to come.

 

[Quiet Flight]

Let's get something clear here. I am eager to see the F9/RAH deal fail. I'm eager to see all of the competition fail. This is better for the company I chose to work for. Not because I have friends there and I want to say "I told you so", but because they are the competition. You're stoned if you think I don't want my company to beat the ever loving piss out of the competition. This benefits me in that it would theoretically provide additional job security. In the same way every old dick at UAL, AA, DAL, etc think SWA is still a "lil outfit from Texas" and would love to see us dead today. This isn't personal, it's business. Ask the attorneys you know how they feel when they're at trial and competing against the other side. Or the guy that manages a fund of funds. You think he cares about the other guy in New York? He'd bury him if it meant a .0001% gain for HIS clients. Everybody has to get over the koombaya BULLSCHIT and realize we are all competitors.

Granted, we do the same thing for a living, but that's about it. I'm sure most of you are great guys and gals and would be cool to have a beer with. But this does not mean I care if you lose your job because your company and/or union makes bad decisions. I care personally about my friends slugging it out in this environment at shady outfits or poorly run (read: bankrupt) carriers. Job loss sucks. I'm not callous to the fact that such an event can devastate a person or a family having been through it (3 times) myself. But this is business people! Plain and simple. Please don't confuse being a vicious competitor with being a prick. One thing I have learned at SWA is they spread the luv internally (that sounds horrifically pornographic) but when it comes to the competition, there is a collective spirit and undaunted cohesiveness that I have yet to see at any company. Be it in the airline world or outside of it. These people view any competition as a threat and have the mindset that threats should be dealt with accordingly. It's like being part of a Superbowl team as opposed to a random collection of has-beens playing football in the park. These people get up every day with the intent of not only moving pax from A to B, but to compete as mightily as possible to gain every passenger possible. Always. Every damn day.

When I went through training a few years ago I was a little surprised at the tone regarding the competition that was being espoused on a daily basis at the training center. It wasn't "we're better than airline X" or "airline X is crap because of this or that". It was "we don't care who they are. They all tried to run us out of business before we even got started and they've all been trying to do it since. They are all out to get us and we will not let that happen." And I realized these people are serious. And they have been since Herb and Lamar started the whole deal. They (mgmt.)want to, and want the employees to, do an outstanding job every day and in the process beat the crap out of every one they compete with. And yes. It all ties in to that overused word, culture. It's not a joke, or a tagline, or a cliche. It's a way of thinking and a way of operating. If you're here you're family, if you're not here, you're the competition. There is no gray area.

This doesn't mean one anonymous pilot hates another anonymous pilot. It just means I/we want to win. I mean why the hell did I get up this morning in the first place? Life is a competition, Play it WELL!

I wish everyone good luck and Godspeed. Hopefully it will all work itself out and the casualties are low or non-existent.

 

[Monster Buck]

Oh, here come the insults. I'm far from worried about being let go from my carrier. You obviously read past posts, but aren't able to recall simple details. I love the job, product and people at Frontier. I'd hate to see it go. I'm well aware that time will tell if we were meant to survive. If SWA drives us out then it's meant to be. Yes, graduated second from the top back in 96'. I practice and passed the bar in 2 states. Freelancing alone, I venture to say I make more than most of your Captains. My point is $$ are not my issue with this deal. It's the details...and i just don't think it was a good deal for F9. I, like many of you, hope to see the details and see if this deal really did blow up in our face. I'm man enough to admitt there is the possibility. Any other questions?

This type of crap is one of many problems with our industry. WE don't want to make that kind of money doing more than just our flying. WE want that kind of money for what we already do, not with a second job. That kind of crap is what weakens our stance. People who treat this like a hobby.