FAPA President, "Happy with the outcome."

[Frank Lorenzo]

I hope the F9 pilots have those fancy noise-attenuating headphones to drown out the laughter coming from the other pilots in the industry.

"My FAPA leaders said it was a bad deal so it must be true."

This has to be the bonehead move of the century.

"I turned down a job at the highest paying airline in the country that has never furloughed so that I could venture into the unknown with a company that is viewed as the cancer of the industry."

HAAAAAAA HAAAAA HAAAAAAA!!!!!

Great job guys!!!!

 

[AnimalTale]

How come Gary Kelly didn't up the bid. If he wanted F9 bad enough, couldn't he have just bought his way out of the labor deal...or just blew the labor part off and let they pilots work it out in arbitration?

Maybe Frontier's numbers weren't as good as everyone thought. It looks like he wanted them bad enough he could have steam rolled Republic.

Whatever. Looks like it will be that much easier for me to get on with SWA.

SWA would have been great. I think FAPA "railroaded" the deal. SWAPA wanted to negotiate over the weekend and the creditors "ended" the auction before the "extended" talks and right after the UNION IMPASSE. Gary never had a chance, the creditors and Judge were always pro-RAH---->Besides, our UNION President was part of the Creditors' Committee (talk about conflict of Interest).

CYA

 

[Tanker Clown]

It's an auction that ends on Monday. When it comes down to brass tax, the creditors want money. I imagine, there was some reason he didn't want to go beyond $170 mil and a labor deal. Maybe that's all that Frontier is worth and not a penny more. Maybe he saw something (like it's cheaper to wait them out). Pretty interesting considering the bankroll that SWA rolled in with.

 

[stratus72]

You know so much about our finances, we should hire you in HQ...especially since you went to law school, not business school. BTW, did you graduate from law school? If so, why are you so worried about losing your job at a bankrupt carrier? Were you disbarred, or didn't pass the bar exam? Inquiring minds want to know.

Oh, here come the insults. I'm far from worried about being let go from my carrier. You obviously read past posts, but aren't able to recall simple details. I love the job, product and people at Frontier. I'd hate to see it go. I'm well aware that time will tell if we were meant to survive. If SWA drives us out then it's meant to be. Yes, graduated second from the top back in 96'. I practice and passed the bar in 2 states. Freelancing alone, I venture to say I make more than most of your Captains. My point is $$ are not my issue with this deal. It's the details...and i just don't think it was a good deal for F9. I, like many of you, hope to see the details and see if this deal really did blow up in our face. I'm man enough to admitt there is the possibility. Any other questions?

 

[avrodriver]

S Gary never had a chance, the creditors and Judge were always pro-RAH---->Besides, our UNION President was part of the Creditors' Committee (talk about conflict of Interest).

CYA

I thought this from the very beginning. When Southwest came in with a big bag of money I was wondering how Bedford would still win.

He had this all laid out and had all the possible holes filled.

I don't think there was any way Southwest was going to win this bid...it wasn't automatically going to go to the highest bidder.

It was going to go to whoever they said they wanted it to go to.

All of these F9 bashers need to relax.

 

[stratus72]

I hope the F9 pilots have those fancy noise-attenuating headphones to drown out the laughter coming from the other pilots in the industry.

"My FAPA leaders said it was a bad deal so it must be true."

This has to be the bonehead move of the century.

"I turned down a job at the highest paying airline in the country that has never furloughed so that I could venture into the unknown with a company that is viewed as the cancer of the industry."

HAAAAAAA HAAAAA HAAAAAAA!!!!!

Great job guys!!!!

Prove it! Provide me with the details of the transactions in NYC. Show me that our Union blew the deal. Maybe they did, although i doubt it. Stop talking out of your a$$ and put forth the evidence!

 

[stratus72]

Oh, here come the insults. I'm far from worried about being let go from my carrier. You obviously read past posts, but aren't able to recall simple details. I love the job, product and people at Frontier. I'd hate to see it go. I'm well aware that time will tell if we were meant to survive. If SWA drives us out then it's meant to be. Yes, graduated second from the top back in 96'. I practice and passed the bar in 2 states. Freelancing alone, I venture to say I make more than most of your Captains. My point is $$ are not my issue with this deal. It's the details...and i just don't think it was a good deal for F9. I, like many of you, hope to see the details and see if this deal really did blow up in our face. I'm man enough to admitt there is the possibility. Any other questions?

By the way, I never claimed to know about your finances. Simple 3rd grade math will show there is a likely chance that you are going to face furloughs. Perhaps short lived, but furloughs nonetheless. I have several friends at your airline who have told me time and time again that there is a distinct chance it will occur. Then agan, guys like you say it will never happen. Then again, the same people told me F9 was toast in 97, then 98 and now 99.

 

[fiel12]

I'd bet the chances are very good you will furlough in the next 12-18 months...if that. Listen to yourself, dolt! You really think nothing will happen to SWA? Again, look at all the former heavyweights out there struggling to survive. I'm emberassed for you.

Anything can happen. you may be right. But seriously, if you had to bet money on which company (F9 or WN) will still be running 5 or 10 years from now, who can you honestly say you'd pick. No ill will to anyone, but WN's eggs are not all in the DEN basket.

Good Luck.

 

[stratus72]

Anything can happen. you may be right. But seriously, if you had to bet money on which company (F9 or WN) will still be running 5 or 10 years from now, who can you honestly say you'd pick. No ill will to anyone, but WN's eggs are not all in the DEN basket.

Good Luck.

Good point, I would place my bet with SWA as of today. However, much can happen over time. Republic is either going to create an exciting growth model over the years or we'll be revisting the courts at a later date. None of us know at this point...but I like our chances. I have no doubt SWA will be around for a long time to come...they are a good company...with a few pricks thrown in there. ;-)

 

[Daddy]

UPDATE 2-Republic wins Frontier auction over Southwest


By Deepa Seetharaman
NEW YORK/ATLANTA, Aug 13 (Reuters) - Republic Airways Holdings won its bid to buy bankrupt Frontier Airlines Holdings Inc for $108.75 million after a day-long auction in bankruptcy court late Thursday.
Republic beat out heavy favorite Southwest Airlines Co who waded into the mix in late July and ultimately submitted a binding offer of $170 million.

Labor issues between pilots' unions at Southwest and Frontier played a part in bogging down a deal. An agreement between the two parties was a necessary condition of the Southwest bid.
"It was a long process that's not quite over but I'm happy with the outcome," said John Stemmler, president of the Frontier Airlines Pilots' Association, of Republic's win.
"It happens to be aligned with keeping more jobs and we're very pleased with that."
Republic improved upon its bid by agreeing to waive recovery rights on its $150 million general unsecured claim, a move expected to boost the distribution to Frontier's unsecured creditors by 94 percent, Frontier said in a release.
Indianapolis-based Republic was Frontier's largest unsecured creditor.
"Republic submitted the highest and best bid, which included substantial improvements from its original investment proposal," Frontier said in its statement.
LABOR ISSUES; THE 'NEW REPUBLIC'
Industry experts had by and large expected Southwest to win the auction, a move that would have grown its presence in Denver and allowed it to explore international routes.
Southwest said a key reason its bid wasn't chosen was because it chose not to remove a requirement calling for pilot unions at its company and Frontier to reach agreement.
Pilots for Southwest and Frontier were in talks until nearly midnight Wednesday, but seniority remained a major sticking point between the two groups.

Stemmler said FAPA and Republic's pilots, who are Teamsters, have not yet discussed senority terms.
Republic, which runs regional flights with large airline partners, first reached a deal to buy Frontier earlier this summer.

Its plan provides for Frontier and its subsidiary Lynx Aviation to operate as subsidiaries of the overall company.
"As the regional airline industry feels the pain of their network airline customers' challenges, many will watch the "New Republic" closely to see if this is the new model for the industry," said Oliver Wyman consultant Andrew Watterson.
Frontier, which filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in April 2008, said it expected to emerge from Chapter 11 in the autumn.
The case is In re: Frontier Airlines Holdings Inc, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York, No. 08-11298.
(Reporting by Karen Jacobs and Deepa Seetharaman; editing by Carol Bishopric)

Good luck with THAT

 

[Popeye0537]

Anything can happen. you may be right. But seriously, if you had to bet money on which company (F9 or WN) will still be running 5 or 10 years from now, who can you honestly say you'd pick. No ill will to anyone, but WN's eggs are not all in the DEN basket.

Good Luck.

If I told you in 2004 that RAH would purchase Midwest and Frontier in 09 what would have told me? In 1995 would you have taken a job at UAL or WN? Times a changin

 

[AnimalTale]

If I told you in 2004 that RAH would purchase Midwest and Frontier in 09 what would have told me? In 1995 would you have taken a job at UAL or WN? Times a changin

Popeye,

It is time for me to (reluctantly: 130K to yank gear at SWA or 70K to be a CA @ at the "new republic") work and be part of the RAH team. So we will make the best of this and help RAISE "OUR" S^itty wages. Ok?

CYA

 

[The Victors]

SWA would have been great. I think FAPA "railroaded" the deal. SWAPA wanted to negotiate over the weekend and the creditors "ended" the auction before the "extended" talks and right after the UNION IMPASSE. Gary never had a chance, the creditors and Judge were always pro-RAH---->Besides, our UNION President was part of the Creditors' Committee (talk about conflict of Interest).

CYA

Finally, the voice of reason.

 

[luv2fly]

SWAFO, please go ask your MA committee about the recall rights of the "excess" FAPA pilots.

Half of our pilot group (captains) were going to lose QOL and remain at their current pay or experience a small raise. They simply did not want to become a furlough shock-absorber and sit reserve for the same or close to the same pay.

20% (at least), were going to be furloughed on "day one", and their recall rights were not clear.

The FO's that kept their jobs were the only ones that would have experienced any benefit.

Destroy an entire airline and put 4300 people on the street just so 150 FO's could get raises and a number at SWA?

If you are going to make a claim, I recommend that you go directly to the source within SWAPA and ensure the accuracy of your claim.

My post is 110% accurate.

Your post in not completely accurate. Recall rights are clearly defined in our CBA in which recalled F9 guys would fall under.

 

[luv2fly]

Good luck with THAT

Wow, paid over 100 million for F9, won't get any money back from the deal, and only had 94 million in the bank before the deal. Its getting interesting as the real details come out.

 

[BUDDHA145]

can we whait few weeks and see what will happend!!! I have never seen so many nostradamous and Mayan's in one place...including me. And for who ever wants to know when there will be any hiring classes, NON till all Midwest Frontier and RAH furghlous are call back.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well then I guess you guys made the right decision

They'll have to live with it... not you.... why are you concerned about F9 guys?

 

[Monster Buck]

RAH could offer the moon, I highly doubt any long term retention of those promises. Again looking long term, being on the SWA seniority list versus ANYTHING that the REGIONAL airline RAH has to offer.......seriously? You are out of your mind if this was even close to a hard choice. JMO but I think most all F9 pilots will look back on this moment with serious regret in the years to come.

 

[Quiet Flight]

Let's get something clear here. I am eager to see the F9/RAH deal fail. I'm eager to see all of the competition fail. This is better for the company I chose to work for. Not because I have friends there and I want to say "I told you so", but because they are the competition. You're stoned if you think I don't want my company to beat the ever loving piss out of the competition. This benefits me in that it would theoretically provide additional job security. In the same way every old dick at UAL, AA, DAL, etc think SWA is still a "lil outfit from Texas" and would love to see us dead today. This isn't personal, it's business. Ask the attorneys you know how they feel when they're at trial and competing against the other side. Or the guy that manages a fund of funds. You think he cares about the other guy in New York? He'd bury him if it meant a .0001% gain for HIS clients. Everybody has to get over the koombaya BULLSCHIT and realize we are all competitors.

Granted, we do the same thing for a living, but that's about it. I'm sure most of you are great guys and gals and would be cool to have a beer with. But this does not mean I care if you lose your job because your company and/or union makes bad decisions. I care personally about my friends slugging it out in this environment at shady outfits or poorly run (read: bankrupt) carriers. Job loss sucks. I'm not callous to the fact that such an event can devastate a person or a family having been through it (3 times) myself. But this is business people! Plain and simple. Please don't confuse being a vicious competitor with being a prick. One thing I have learned at SWA is they spread the luv internally (that sounds horrifically pornographic) but when it comes to the competition, there is a collective spirit and undaunted cohesiveness that I have yet to see at any company. Be it in the airline world or outside of it. These people view any competition as a threat and have the mindset that threats should be dealt with accordingly. It's like being part of a Superbowl team as opposed to a random collection of has-beens playing football in the park. These people get up every day with the intent of not only moving pax from A to B, but to compete as mightily as possible to gain every passenger possible. Always. Every damn day.

When I went through training a few years ago I was a little surprised at the tone regarding the competition that was being espoused on a daily basis at the training center. It wasn't "we're better than airline X" or "airline X is crap because of this or that". It was "we don't care who they are. They all tried to run us out of business before we even got started and they've all been trying to do it since. They are all out to get us and we will not let that happen." And I realized these people are serious. And they have been since Herb and Lamar started the whole deal. They (mgmt.)want to, and want the employees to, do an outstanding job every day and in the process beat the crap out of every one they compete with. And yes. It all ties in to that overused word, culture. It's not a joke, or a tagline, or a cliche. It's a way of thinking and a way of operating. If you're here you're family, if you're not here, you're the competition. There is no gray area.

This doesn't mean one anonymous pilot hates another anonymous pilot. It just means I/we want to win. I mean why the hell did I get up this morning in the first place? Life is a competition, Play it WELL!

I wish everyone good luck and Godspeed. Hopefully it will all work itself out and the casualties are low or non-existent.

 

[Monster Buck]

Oh, here come the insults. I'm far from worried about being let go from my carrier. You obviously read past posts, but aren't able to recall simple details. I love the job, product and people at Frontier. I'd hate to see it go. I'm well aware that time will tell if we were meant to survive. If SWA drives us out then it's meant to be. Yes, graduated second from the top back in 96'. I practice and passed the bar in 2 states. Freelancing alone, I venture to say I make more than most of your Captains. My point is $$ are not my issue with this deal. It's the details...and i just don't think it was a good deal for F9. I, like many of you, hope to see the details and see if this deal really did blow up in our face. I'm man enough to admitt there is the possibility. Any other questions?

This type of crap is one of many problems with our industry. WE don't want to make that kind of money doing more than just our flying. WE want that kind of money for what we already do, not with a second job. That kind of crap is what weakens our stance. People who treat this like a hobby.