FAA Vacation

[timmay]

Am I the only one who thinks a mistake of this nature should not go unpunished?? I understand that it was a mistake and can happen to anyone, but it is a mistake that can't happen. This could have easily killed 300+ people and probably deserves more than a letter in a file that gets expunged in 2 years. Just my opinion.

 

[Britpilot]

Am I the only one who thinks a mistake of this nature should not go unpunished?? I understand that it was a mistake and can happen to anyone, but it is a mistake that can't happen. This could have easily killed 300+ people and probably deserves more than a letter in a file that gets expunged in 2 years. Just my opinion.

Maybe you are. This kind of incident happens more often than you think and could happen to any of us. Punishment would do nothing to prevent it happening again. There any many incidents that could have caused loss of life. (ATL incursion a couple of weeks ago) Evaluation and education is the most productive thing to do and that is what ASAP is all about.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Am I the only one who thinks a mistake of this nature should not go unpunished?? I understand that it was a mistake and can happen to anyone, but it is a mistake that can't happen. This could have easily killed 300+ people and probably deserves more than a letter in a file that gets expunged in 2 years. Just my opinion.

Your attitude is what contributes to 300+ people being killed.... consider changing it.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Am I the only one who thinks a mistake of this nature should not go unpunished?? I understand that it was a mistake and can happen to anyone, but it is a mistake that can't happen. This could have easily killed 300+ people and probably deserves more than a letter in a file that gets expunged in 2 years. Just my opinion.

Yah, a bad mistake. But, one that could happen to any one of us though. Nobody got hurt and I dont think anyone deserves any time off. Sure, it will be a lesson learned for the guys involved but its a lesson for the rest of us as well.

If this happened to you, I'll bet that you would be singing to a slightly different tune here.

 

[Say Again Over]

I hope they receive one of those nice letters that goes away in two years and a training session, I don't think either pilot will ever let that happen again.

 

[timmay]

So just so I understand what everyone is saying here. If a doctor operates on the wrong part of a body, lets say takes out someones spleen instead of a kidney you think they should only get a letter in their file?? Very much the same thing just a mistake. Bash away

 

[Guitar rocker]

So just so I understand what everyone is saying here. If a doctor operates on the wrong part of a body, lets say takes out someones spleen instead of a kidney you think they should only get a letter in their file?? Very much the same thing just a mistake. Bash away

Was any harm done to anyone in taking off without the clearance? No. Is there any harm in taking out a spleen instead of a kidney? Im not an MD but something tells me that there would be some harm done in that case. I know what you are getting at but your above comparisson isnt valid.

 

[wrightflyer]

No harm in removing a spleen, you dont need one to live but the MD should still be held accountable.

 

[timmay]

No harm in removing a spleen, you dont need one to live but the MD should still be held accountable.

Someone finally gets my point. YES it can happen to anyone and NO IDONT think they should lose there job. However we need some accountability which is lacking in our industry.

 

[RDG]

So just so I understand what everyone is saying here. If a doctor operates on the wrong part of a body, lets say takes out someones spleen instead of a kidney you think they should only get a letter in their file?? Very much the same thing just a mistake. Bash away

Not even close to the same thing. You're pretty far out there dude.

 

[BoilerUP]

Someone finally gets my point. YES it can happen to anyone and NO IDONT think they should lose there job. However we need some accountability which is lacking in our industry.

Accountability? Lacking in aviation???

Just what kind of accountability do you think this crew "needs"?

I say we let the SWA ERC decide that...

 

[Caveman]

The spleen analogy is lame, but I get your point and to some extent agree with you. How serious does a screwup have to be before there are real consequences? By real consequences I'm talking about more than a temporary letter on your record. Do we actually have to bend metal or injure somebody first? Whether or not this incident rises to that level is not a call I want to make, but Timmay's point is valid. How bad is so bad that an ASAP report won't save you?

 

[Guitar rocker]

Someone finally gets my point. YES it can happen to anyone and NO IDONT think they should lose there job. However we need some accountability which is lacking in our industry.

I guess the question is..what is your version of "accountablity?" You mention above that this shouldnt go "un-punished." We all make mistakes and what happened to the SWA crew could happen to anyone out there. If they flat out told the controller, NFW are we waiting in position...we are gonna blast off...later dude. Well, knowingly putting people in a compromising position like that and blatently disregarding the controllers instructions would warrant a form of "punishment." But this was a mistake and nobody got hurt...and we can all learn from that. We all know that perhaps they will get something on their "file" but they certainly dont need to be punished.

 

[flint4xx]

Maybe position and hold should go away...

 

[SSDD]

It seems most of the previous posts are based on the "there but for the grace of God go I". It could happen to any of us, so if these guys don't get punished, then when I do it, I won't be punished either. Even though nobody died, the fact is that taking off without a clearance and causing a near miss IS a big deal.

The ASAP reports, if they filed them, should help these guys out, but at the very least, a letter in their file and some line checks are in order.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It seems most of the previous posts are based on the "there but for the grace of God go I". It could happen to any of us, so if these guys don't get punished, then when I do it, I won't be punished either. Even though nobody died, the fact is that taking off without a clearance and causing a near miss IS a big deal.

The ASAP reports, if they filed them, should help these guys out, but at the very least, a letter in their file and some line checks are in order.

Does ANYONE have the whole story here?



Anyone?


Then let ASAP do its job. Were they fatigued? What is the playback of the ATC clearance?

Here is the big problem.... you guys are are using guilty until proven innocent. All you are doing is eroding the profession....

When punishment and discpline is used then safety goes out the window.... guys won't report the issues for fear of discipline... so safety isn't improved...

If you are a professional pilot and you have not read the FAA AC on ASAP then click the link. Education is two things: power and a choice...

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...7a04907a886256c7900648358/$FILE/AC120-66B.pdf

 

[Guitar rocker]

It seems most of the previous posts are based on the "there but for the grace of God go I". It could happen to any of us, so if these guys don't get punished, then when I do it, I won't be punished either. Even though nobody died, the fact is that taking off without a clearance and causing a near miss IS a big deal.

The ASAP reports, if they filed them, should help these guys out, but at the very least, a letter in their file and some line checks are in order.

And its probably a given that they are going to get exactly that. But what other punishment is needed?

 

[SSDD]

O.K. I'll modify my post...

Assuming that the facts as presented are correct...then

I'm not in any way suggesting that these guys shoud have their licenses suspended or revoked. But some people seem to suggest that $hit happens so that's it.

 

[gcsass]

and some line checks are in order.

Just out of curiosity, how will a line check help this situation? We get line checks fairly frequently at my present company....am I being punished for something?

 

[jmreii]

I have friends at southwest. I just hope the FAA goes lightly, which depends on what FAA inspector you draw. I personally used a NASA(ASRS) report years ago(22) for busting the TCA at San Diego. The FAA at San diego wanted to burn me at the stake and LAX FSDO did not. I lucked out and was granted immunity 3 months later while waiting to see if I was going to be burned at the stake. The moral of the story is what is your situation and are you aware. Peace out.