FAA Vacation

[gutshotdraw]

So, how long do you think the involuntary vacation will be for the SWA crew that took off from SFO 1L last night after only being cleared into position? And yes, an airplane landing 28L had to go around at the rather, em, urgent request of the tower controller. I'm sure the NASA form was filled out before touchdown but I'd like to know if a NASA report will save you from one like this.

Must have been the last leg of reaallly loonnngg day.

 

[Taildragon]

Hope it never happens to you.

 

[Cardinal]

Airiline pilots and their evil representation have also negotiated the ASAP program into existence, another layer of protection. Not bulletproof, but allows for corrective action like writing "I wil not take off when cleared into position and hold" on the chalkboard 100 times, versus serving a suspension.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Hope it never happens to you

Agreed. My heart goes out to those guys, that really sucks.

As I understand it, ASAP only works for sole source. That is, if the only way the mistake could be found out was because you disclosed it.

I don't think the SWA crew were the only ones who knew they F'd up and so the ASAP report will not cover them.

That being said, it still wouldn't hurt to get it done. I'll bet they get a note in their file but nothing more.

 

[The_Russian]

It happened to me.

Many years ago, as a brand new CFI, I took off without a clearance after being given the position. The student had about 15 hours in airplanes and we were beginning to learn short and soft field t/o and landings. We started with the short field takeoff, which was previously briefed. We were holding short of 25 at KORL and the controlled cleared us onto the runway for position and hold. As we took the runway I talked the student through the line-up and power up. Just as we had briefed, I instructed the student to release the brakes and continue down the runway.

Just about eight seconds later, the tower lady came on screaming at me! "N12345, were you cleared for takeoff?!?!" In fear for my certificates, I panicked and instructed the student to abort the takeoff. The student, also being new, slammed on the brakes resulting in a blowout on the left main. So, there we were on the side of the runway with the runway shut down for thirty minutes.

It is kind of a funny story between the two of us, even to this day. More importantly, a lesson learned from a mistake that anyone can make.

Although, this begs the question(s):

How many mistakes is too many for a professional pilot flight crew operating in dense traffic environment? Is just one mistake too many?

 

[Caveman]

So, how long do you think the involuntary vacation will be for the SWA crew that took off from SFO 1L last night after only being cleared into position? And yes, an airplane landing 28L had to go around at the rather, em, urgent request of the tower controller. I'm sure the NASA form was filled out before touchdown but I'd like to know if a NASA report will save you from one like this.

Must have been the last leg of reaallly loonnngg day.

I have a saying I try to live by: "Better pilots than me have landed gear up."

Translation: Any of us can screw up given the right set of circumstances. The main difference between me and this crew is I got away with my screw-ups, so far. Fortunately no one got hurt and no metal was bent. That's all good. Unfortunately this crew will get dragged through the mud by some internet know-it-alls, the press and the FAA. I guarantee you this particular crew will NEVER make this mistake again. If we're smart the rest of us will learn from their mistake. It could happen to any of us. I wish them well.

 

[USMC319]

As I understand it, ASAP only works for sole source.

ASAP works for either "sole source" or "dual source", however, a dual source will have a chance of creating some sort of paperwork for your file (ie.letter of correction).

I've had nightmares about taking off without a clearance, kinda like the dreams when you were a kid and showed up to school in your underwear, but fortunately haven't done it in real life yet.

 

[PositiveRate]

If it's non "sole-source" - i.e. crew self discloses along with FAA pursuing action, you can get a letter or correction or warning in your file for 2 years I believe. Non sole source would likely have a 'how not to take off before cleared to do so' sim session/training.

I believe if it's only sole source - i.e. crew disclosure, then there's no action or letters.

Anyone who looks down on or posts gleefully over incidents like this is tempting the karma Gods...this stuff happens every day and could very well happen to any of us on our next trip. That's why the ASAP program is so great - it encourages disclosure, thus highlighting recurring safety issues that can be corrected and properly addressed in our training cycles.

 

[jonjuan]

So, how long do you think the involuntary vacation will be for the SWA crew that took off from SFO 1L last night after only being cleared into position? And yes, an airplane landing 28L had to go around at the rather, em, urgent request of the tower controller. I'm sure the NASA form was filled out before touchdown but I'd like to know if a NASA report will save you from one like this.

Must have been the last leg of reaallly loonnngg day.

Don't Gulfstreams fly even loooonger days? Doubt he would post it anywhere if it happened to a fellow nji crew. Sounds a bit jealous of the SWA crew who, despite flying pax who earn 1/1000 of his pax, gets paid more than he does.

 

[MINIME]

It has almost happenend to me, I know of people whom it's happened to, I have witnessed it happening and I doubt that's the last time any of us will EVER make a mistake. Therefore, my best wishes to the crew and I hope they learn from it. I'm positive they'll never commit that same mistake again. I'm sure they're grateful none got hurt. I hope they get to move on and past this event.