FAA Revokes the two NWA Pilots licenses

[JustaNumber]

Martha Stewart on the other hand........

It's ironic that you bring up Martha, as I was just thinking about how this case is remarkably similar to Martha's, both in terms of the reason for the media/public fascination for it, and the necessary government response.

If you think about it, both involved a person or persons who had a national reputation for always doing the right thing, being the perfect professionals, but then got caught doing the opposite, with a cavalier attitude that either the rules didn't apply to them, or that they would never get caught. Both lied in the initial investigation. It was like the fascination with pedophile priests; it just seems so contradictory.

The government response in both cases was completely necessary. If they hadn't thrown the book at Martha, giving just a wink and a nod at the insider trading, corruption in this country would have increased exponentially, and we would be well on the way to becoming Mexico. But now how many times have you heard Martha's example brought up when insider trading issues come up? Her example did more to keep corporate officers clean than thousands of pages of government regulations ever could have. Same goes for the pilots.

 

[Flopgut]

Are we all absolutely certain these two weren't slipped a sleep aid or something? The whole thing seems impossible to me. If this has already been broke down and discussed I missed it.

 

[flyguy67966]

Never ever talk to the police -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc&feature=player_embedded

Great video, it changed my outlook.

Agreed, thanks for sharing, this is great info.

 

[scoreboardII]

Are we all absolutely certain these two weren't slipped a sleep aid or something? The whole thing seems impossible to me. If this has already been broke down and discussed I missed it.

You mean impossible that they were slipped a sleep aid or maybe they were slipped one or something? Sorry, but they tesified they were on computers, do you have facts to back anything else?

 

[Flopgut]

Not necessarily. I think a toxicology report is in order. There have been some weird instances at my airline where things have proven to be not what we all thought.

 

[Pirate]

Not necessarily. I think a toxicology report is in order. There have been some weird instances at my airline where things have proven to be not what we all thought.

Maybe they were just dreaming about being on computers??

 

[AKAAB]

Maybe I'm missing something, but by what authority are they allowed to use the CVR against the pilots for enforcement purposes? There was no accident or incident. The only thing the NTSB has to work off of is a possible inability for a crewmember to be able to perform his duties. Otherwise, it's not even a reportable event, is it? (Looking for my NTSB regs...)

For all intents and purposes they got lost and recovered back to their original destination after sorting it all out. Send them home for 90 days, then wring them out in the sim. They'll be the safest pilots in the sky instead of the saddest pilots on the ground.

 

[Flopgut]

Maybe I'm missing something, but by what authority are they allowed to use the CVR against the pilots for enforcement purposes? There was no accident or incident. The only thing the NTSB has to work off of is a possible inability for a crewmember to be able to perform his duties. Otherwise, it's not even a reportable event, is it? (Looking for my NTSB regs...)

For all intents and purposes they got lost and recovered back to their original destination after sorting it all out. Send them home for 90 days, then wring them out in the sim. They'll be the safest pilots in the sky instead of the saddest pilots on the ground.

Great post!!

 

[Flopgut]

Some of the FAs at my airline are walking pharmacies. And they've done some dam awful things with their pills including one who gave zanex to a crying infant and another who date rape drugged an FO. I'm just saying: This scenario is getting checked out, right?

 

[jonjuan]

Agreed, thanks for sharing, this is great info.

Yeah, OK. Do you mean the example where he describes the attorney who is accused of assault, denies it, and yet admits that he "just put his hands to the throat of the gal, but didn't really mean it" gesture?
In the same vein, I can't wait to see these kids in Cali who raped this HS girl tell their attorney they didn't do it as they have no "proof."

 

[Poahi]

Maybe I'm missing something, but by what authority are they allowed to use the CVR against the pilots for enforcement purposes? There was no accident or incident.

1. The trial lawyers killed the idea that the CVR can only be used in the cases of accidents or incidents solely for determining the cause.

2. The revocation letter was based on facts surrounding the incident, not the CVR. The NTSB has no regulatory control over pilots.
3. This was an incident. FWIW

Circumstances like this will destroy any kind of privacy pilots have in the flight deck. We all will suffer from this.

 

[onewithwings]

We should all reserve judgment until all the investigation is over and all of the information is out.

I couldn't have said it better! Banter is healthy but keep it professional.

 

[Golden Falcon]

It would be a bit of a stretch to pull the fatigue card on the first leg after a 19 hour layover.

That being said, this all happened too fast for me. Wonder what the outcome would have been if it was not such a slow week in the media?

They lying may be hard to prove...but obstruction of justice?

Fatigue is a cumulative result of improper rest patterns, one might have had 48hrs off and still be fatigued...

 

[zonker]

Yeah, OK. Do you mean the example where he describes the attorney who is accused of assault, denies it, and yet admits that he "just put his hands to the throat of the gal, but didn't really mean it" gesture?
In the same vein, I can't wait to see these kids in Cali who raped this HS girl tell their attorney they didn't do it as they have no "proof."

That was the point of the video. Whether you are guilty or innocent, there is no positive outcome that can be derived from talking to the police.

 

[vetrider]

I hear and understand what you're saying. I bet many of us could have at some point in time let our guard down and the situation, under the wrong circumstances, could have gotten out of hand. Being human sucks sometimes.

That being said, if you were in charge at the FAA, and you honestly wanted to do the right thing, what would you have done?

I think the FAA did what it had to, in the interest of making an example of these guys. They had to show the public that they can trust the FAA to keep everyone safe, and they had to send a message to the rest of the piloting community that maintaining situational awareness is absolutely critical to flight safety. It's a shame that two people have to be made an example of, but hopefully the system will become a little safer as we are all reminded to keep our guard up a little more.

I hear and understand what you are saying as well. I just think it is sad, that's all. I wish something could have been done without completely ruining them.