F9 still in play

[USMC319]

Actually SWA made RUH bid alot more than they wanted to (didn't they forgive 110M+ as part of their bid?) Now RUH is sorta short of CASH....[/QUOTE]

No. Not even close. RAH had a $260mm claim against F9 for cancelling an EMB-170 contract. That claim was for future earnings not money lost or earned. Later they negotiated that claim down to $150mm during the BK process. Ultimately they dropped that claim in order to get the Frontier bid away from SWA, making it more attractive to the UCC (unsecured creditors committee). Ironically, it was money that never existed and that they never earned. So, whomever made that preposterous statement above has a shallow understanding of the facts in this case. Oh well, it makes for good FI banter and WN conspiracy theories.

 

[jhill]

Actually SWA made RUH bid alot more than they wanted to (didn't they forgive 110M+ as part of their bid?) Now RUH is sorta short of CASH....[/QUOTE]

No. Not even close. RAH had a $260mm claim against F9 for cancelling an EMB-170 contract. That claim was for future earnings not money lost or earned. Later they negotiated that claim down to $150mm during the BK process. Ultimately they dropped that claim in order to get the Frontier bid away from SWA, making it more attractive to the UCC (unsecured creditors committee). Ironically, it was money that never existed and that they never earned. So, whomever made that preposterous statement above has a shallow understanding of the facts in this case. Oh well, it makes for good FI banter and WN conspiracy theories.

Except for the fact that RAH has approached SWA with an offer.

 

[T B O N E]

Lear,
I was thinking the same thing. The way this whole thing went down just seemed a little strange to me. This whole thing was probably worked out on a golf course somewhere...

I highly doubt GK would play golf with BB, unless GK was Ty Webb and BB was Judge Smalls....

"Don't sell yourself short BB, You're a tremendous slouch."

 

[FBN0223]

A staple job of a Major Airline narrowbody pilot group to another Major Airline narrowbody pilot seniority list?? YGBFSM. I don't think that its even legal to agree to something like that in this day and age.
.

I agree. A stable job would have been difficult to stomach. Did FAPA propose a DOH integration? What was FAPA's proposal?

 

[Monster Buck]

A staple job of a Major Airline narrowbody pilot group to another Major Airline narrowbody pilot seniority list?? YGBFSM. I don't think that its even legal to agree to something like that in this day and age.

In any event I think all the chatter of RAH leveraging F9 is BB's efforts to raise capital for his yet to be announced expansion plan. (Mostly institutional investors) I don't think SWA has anything to do with it and it doesn't play into BB's plan, but who knows for sure.

As to all of you soothsayers, just relax on the Frontier thing. The holding company (RAH) can operate F9 as a successful mainline carrier, distinctly different from their "fee for departure" business or they can operate it like one of their commuters. In the case of the latter, it will be a miserable failure, but I think they know that. I would have loved to joined forces with WN but not at the expense of a staple job and there was really no time for either side to negotiate anything else.

No one on the planet except an F9 pilot would ever attempt to make this parallel. Frontier has what 30 planes? With all due respect they are nothing more than a SMALL regional type airline with airbuses. They uplift what?...like 1/1000th of SWA and like many have pointed out before most all at F9 would have taken a new hire job at SWA. That alone points to the fact that Frontier is nowhere near an airline deserving of an equatable merger.

 

[Cometman]

No one on the planet except an F9 pilot would ever attempt to make this parallel. Frontier has what 30 planes? With all due respect they are nothing more than a SMALL regional type airline with airbuses. They uplift what?...like 1/1000th of SWA and like many have pointed out before most all at F9 would have taken a new hire job at SWA. That alone points to the fact that Frontier is nowhere near an airline deserving of an equatable merger.

Well said. They are a small pea in the pot. They will regret the day they turned SWA down.

 

[Whine Lover]

F9 / SWA..." ITS OVER, move on. "

To paraphrase the late Great Senator John Blutarsky:

Over? ....It ain't OVER til' we of FI say it's Over!

Was it OVER when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!?


http://www.entertonement.com/collections/5057/John-Bluto-Blutarsky


YKW

 

[USMC319]

I agree. A stable job would have been difficult to stomach. Did FAPA propose a DOH integration? What was FAPA's proposal?[/QUOTE]

FAPA's initial offer was equally absurd; Relative Seniority, top to bottom. If there were time and if reasonable heads prevailed, I'm sure something palatable could have been worked out. At any rate, there was much more to it than the brain trust here on FI is aware of. For example, look at the post Monster Buck just made:
"Frontier has what 30 planes? With all due respect they are nothing more than a SMALL regional type airline with airbuses. They uplift what?...like 1/1000th of SWA and like many have pointed out before most all at F9 would have taken a new hire job at SWA."
With addled thinking and inaccurate facts, I suppose one could come to these illogical conclusions, but hey, don't let reality and truth get in the way of an intelligent debate here on FI.
For the record, F9 represented 10% of the new SWA, bringing to the table; a 121 Flag operating certificate allowing international operations in-house, 62 aircraft with 10 on order (F9/L4) providing regional feed in-house and instant dominance at one of the worlds busiest airports.
As to the tired rant of applications on file and everyone willing to take a new hire job at SWA; last summer F9 was looking like it was going away and F9 pilots had applications in at WN and other airlines all over the world. Probably even a few applied at Airtran At the time of this negotiation, I think you would find few that would be willing to leave F9 and start over at the bottom of someone else's list.

 

[airlinepilot]

I guess if SWA started the hiring process again the F9 guys and gals will not want an invite. That should make the sorting process much easier.

 

[Cardinal]

The Internet has more than a billion pages of internet porn and all you SWA guys are still jerking off to as$raping Frontier. Get...A...Hobby.

 

[Indy319FA]

First I've heard about selling assets to SWA. All I've heard is Midwest Employees in cities served by Frontier are getting layoff notices because Frontier will be handling all the aircraft. Also a bunch of Midwest employees in MKE are being laid off as well. There is a lot of talk about Frontier aircraft going to MKE to fly some of the longer haul routes because 190s cannot handle the load. Flights to LAX are full every flight. Also a while back DL supposedly approached RAH about flying Q400s, but Bedford felt the revenue generated by flying a few Q400s for DL would not justify the cost of adding them to the CHQ certificate. Now that he owns a certificate with Q400s I wouldn't be surprised to see them end up flying for DL or CO.

Not too sure if I believe all this SWA talk of buying assets. But then I've had 2 US Airways jumpseaters tell me Republic is buying either the East or West operation (with American buying the other half)......

Gonna be an interesting next few months around here.

 

[firstthird]

But then I've had 2 US Airways jumpseaters tell me Republic is buying either the East or West operation (with American buying the other half)......

now that is a good rumor. worthy of the record books. I suspect if Doug Parker could get a bigger airline to control he'd probably do something like that. but who would republic get and would RAH want an integrated SLI with USAPA or maybe DOH would work better.

 

[Indy319FA]

now that is a good rumor. worthy of the record books. I suspect if Doug Parker could get a bigger airline to control he'd probably do something like that. but who would republic get and would RAH want an integrated SLI with USAPA or maybe DOH would work better

Don't know. Not saying I believe it either. But 2 guys in different bases told me the same thing, the only difference is one said west and the other said east. But after the last 3 months nothing that happens around here would surprise me.

 

[gobyebye]

As a SWA pilot, I'm tired of hearing all the other SWA pilots take off on some rumor and start bashing F9 pilots again about their decision. Just shut up until this whole thing pans out, you're making the other 99% of us look like c@cks.

 

[Whine Lover]

" A stable job would have been difficult to stomach. "

Methinks a Freudian slip?

Or perhaps you meant a "stable job" as in shoveling Horse Sh!t for a living?




YKW