F9/RAH meeting

[shearedshaft]

I could go on and on but I have already wasted too much time on total nonsense.

This is getting old, you're correct.

 

[StaySeated]

You might want to go double-check before you get all screwed into the ceiling.

Where do you think "fences", "DEN base", "No immediate furloughs" came from?

Was there, or wasn't there, an entire negotiated FAPA union agreement forged a little over one week prior to the auction, dealing with post-auction life of the average FAPA member?

Hell, I'm just repeating what I read about HERE written by a FAPA member right after the auction.

A moment ago you were accusing the president of FAPA of a fait accompli, now you try and divert your accusation to the LOA between FAPA and RAH. The best part is your "fences", "Den base", and "No immediate furloughs" are no where to be found within the LOA.

You are either total flamebait or the most clueless poster on this site. Either way, you have earned a spot on the ingore list. No one else is on that list, not even instructordude, so well done!

 

[learherkjay]

What is the point of this thread?

 

[General Lee]

If it were a one for one trade (LBB for say CDG) then Id be with you. You have a net loss of mainline flying due to codesharing. Fewer pilots on the DAL list. New destinations have not kept up with what you have given away. Great that you added 100+ intl destinations. You should have kept LBB and MAF and stopped the spread of "C" scale pilots whoring themselves out and diminishing your(our) leverage during contract time. If SWA starts service from AMA to Pampa in a 402, it will be flown by a SWAPA pilot getting paid SWAPA negotiated rates, or it wont fly. Thats the way it is for us and the way it should be for DAL and everyone else. Dont pretend not to know that this has harmed the pilot profession. No one can be that stupid. There is no way for you to win this debate.

We added over 50 INTL destinations in one year. And don't forget please WE brought your pay to where it is. We did. Our C2K contract got you your current pay. The reason we don't have our pay now is our past management that got us into BK. I don't remember crashing a plane or doing anything to get us there. As far as the proliferation of RJs, no doubt we lost some leverage before and DURING BK. I hope you never have to go through something like that yourself, being in front of a BK judge that just doesn't care about what you want or don't want to give up. If you think you can control a situation like that, then you haven't been there. Until you do, then you can't even participate in this debate. And you also talk about codesharing. With whom are you talking about? We recently added some Alaska Airlines codeshares, which don't really help us on the West Coast. But, we added a joint Venture with Air France and KLM across the Atlantic, which has added to our flights across the Atlantic to their CDG and AMS hubs. We were going to add a lot of flights before the recession hit (RDU to CDG for example), but that has been put on hold for now. Some codeshares help, and some do not. We actually have control over that, and our MEC can reject any that we do not like. I am still questioning the Alaska one, but supposedly it will feed our eventual SEA hub. We will see if that all comes to fruition.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[RedRum]

Mini,

Don't try to be logical with these people on here. It is outside of their natural instincts. I totally agree with what you were saying...so I guess I am in the minority.

Good luck to the F9 guys. Only time will tell if the right choice was made. I probably would have done the same if I was given a de facto, sign-this-or-else deal as well.

SWA knows the rules and they were trying to do a midnight deal to circumvent those rules.

Hope F9 finds a way to integrate everything (if the need even exists). To me it is better to let a sleeping dog lie than mess with F9 right now. You guys are running a good operation. Again, good luck.

 

[firstthird]

And don't forget please WE brought your pay to where it is. We did. Our C2K contract got you your current pay.

You take too much credit. Your contract probably was responsible for our 2004 pay and our 2006 pay, but we just got raises on top of that. I'll go out on a limb and state that your current rates had VERY little or nothing to do with our current pay rates. up to 2006 yes, but not now.

then again if you want to take credit for the compounding effect, then you do get some credit. thank you. now it is your turn, get your rates up back to 10 or 20% above ours. Same with Airtran and Jetblue and American and United. jacking the house only works if we each take a turn and lift a corner. the ball is now in your court. we got 6% over 5 years. nothing to crow about but I'll take it. Now we need some other airlines to get back to the business of making money, both as an airline and as the pilots that fly them. we are counting on you, seeing as we go back into section six in less than 2 years. so get on it.

 

[StarChecker]

Our COO does have quite a temper, and has some very inappropriate outbursts in the past. Bedford plays good cop, Heller plays the bad cop.

I would gladly go to jail for the pleasure of elbowing Wayne Heller in the face. He is a souless, evil, bitter prick. He HATES pilots and purposefully does everything in his power to screw them.

F Wayne Heller.:angryfire

 

[General Lee]

You take too much credit. Your contract probably was responsible for our 2004 pay and our 2006 pay, but we just got raises on top of that. I'll go out on a limb and state that your current rates had VERY little or nothing to do with our current pay rates. up to 2006 yes, but not now.

then again if you want to take credit for the compounding effect, then you do get some credit. thank you. now it is your turn, get your rates up back to 10 or 20% above ours. Same with Airtran and Jetblue and American and United. jacking the house only works if we each take a turn and lift a corner. the ball is now in your court. we got 6% over 5 years. nothing to crow about but I'll take it. Now we need some other airlines to get back to the business of making money, both as an airline and as the pilots that fly them. we are counting on you, seeing as we go back into section six in less than 2 years. so get on it.

Whatever man, it brought your pay up A LOT. Saying we didn't help a lot is WRONG. And, we hope you don't go BK and lose your pay before we try to get ours back up to that level. Keep flying those full profitable flights to MAF and LBB for us! Your latest TA was pretty good (2% raise and scope protections), and we will use that in our opener I am sure.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

Stemmler made a deal with Bedford? Huh? I mean, do you guys really believe this lunacy? I have read some stupid things on FI before but this has developed an entirely new level of stupid.

How in the F could two people make a deal outside of the UCC? You do realize that there were several members of the UCC, each of which was owed millions, some hundreds of millions of dollars.

Then there is the problem with the SEC and FINRA due to the fact that FRNT.PK was traded until Oct. 1.

Then there is the personal liability that Stemmler would have with a DFR lawsuit.

And what about the Honorable Mr. Drain? I am sure he was in on the entire "secret deal", right.

Wow.

I could go on and on but I have already wasted too much time on total nonsense.

For whatever reason I will explain the history behind "what I heard" about the deal.

Stemmler is your FAPA president correct? He bargains for you correct? BB bargains for RAH.

Long before the WN deal came up F9 was bankrupt. RAH via Brian Bedford was breathing life into F9 via DIP financing. RAH decided to BUY F9, not give them a loan. Part of the discussion about purchase had to do with the pilots union. Bedford and Stemmler did in fact meet, negotiate a contract to be opened AFTER the deal, and go about their ways. Said contract had fence agreements, pay rates and job protection for Frontier pilots.

Then SWA got involved and made a bid. RAH saw the deal starting to unravel and raised the anti. Stemmler already new what he had negotiated with RAH and decided to play poker with SWAPA and shoot for the moon.

The deal fell apart and it is what it is.

Call me a whacko but this is the EXACT story given to me by a fairly senior Frontier captain who happens to be a friend of mine. He may not have the story straight but I trust what he says - therefore it's my story.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Gup

 

[FlyinGuy]

Oh I get it, the SWA pilots owe DAL a huge favor for all the work they did to improve our quality of life and pay. Well I thought I got it but now that I said it, it is total lunacy......from who else.......THE GENERAL!