Expressjet concessionary LOA/TA out

[B727FA]

I can't give details because nobody understands them. It's a bit of weird math that we're awaiting some clarification on.

Is that the TA, or the bailout?

 

[Turtlesfly]

there's no difference. The TA is the company bailout. Both at the expense of the poorest people.

 

[pipejockey]

You should hold out and "take it back" until you go out of business. That'll show 'em!

Have you looked at the economy lately? None of us are going to "take it back." Let's be realistic here.

Ah, here is another winner that wants to throw whats left of this career to management. So how little are you willing to work for? When do you say enough is enough? Lets be realistic here. Do FO's not deserve the basic necessities of life? And at 30 grand a year, thats all one can afford, if that. If Mr. Captain who is maybe earning 60-80 which in itself is pathetic, wants to give money away to management, than have at it. No regional FO should be forced to take any pay cut whatsoever.

So answer my question please! How little are you willing to work for, and I would like a yearly dollar figure please.

 

[pipejockey]

Right, its pilots, mechanics, dispatchers, and flight attendants. All but the FAs have reached a TA so far.

I'm sorry but I see a glaring absence here. Can anyone tell me what kind of cut the management team has taken??

Anyone??

Hello??

 

[cybourg10]

All non union employees were immediately given a 6% paycut a few months ago. The CEO took an 10% cut as well. If any employees are given so much as a $1 bonus than we immediately return to normal pay.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I'm getting tired of hearing people who don't work for my company or who have been furloughed thumping their chest and telling everyone else how they need to vote. It's easy to be a tough guy when you have nothing to lose. I'll do my own research and make my own decision... you have zero influence.. so give it a rest. Thanks.

Your judgment is clouded because this affects you so greatly. Listen to people that are not affected. They make more unbiased decisions. It's just a regional job anyhow.

On another note, it does not matter how you vote. You will take a pay cut either way. It might just take longer.

 

[pipejockey]

Its 1 thing to cut the pay of someone who is earning above and beyond what is needed for the necessities of life, totally different to cut the pay of people earning 20-35 a year and barely meeting the necessities of life...food, clothing, shelter, 1 vehicle!!!

 

[dojetdriver]

You guys need new management, plain and simple. You guys have to stop believing yourselfs that you have the best management out there.

Bear in mind, not ALL of us here at XJT are of that line of thinking.

 

[HHH]

Ah, here is another winner that wants to throw whats left of this career to management. So how little are you willing to work for? When do you say enough is enough? Lets be realistic here. Do FO's not deserve the basic necessities of life? And at 30 grand a year, thats all one can afford, if that. If Mr. Captain who is maybe earning 60-80 which in itself is pathetic, wants to give money away to management, than have at it. No regional FO should be forced to take any pay cut whatsoever.

So answer my question please! How little are you willing to work for, and I would like a yearly dollar figure please.

Well said. Please stop lowering the value of the profession. Enough is enough!

It's easy to talk tough when things are going well. NOW is the time to "walk the walk" and tell management no thanks. If that means the company goes BK then so be it. It's easy to tell everyone else that they are "lowering the bar". Now is the time for YOU - Xjet pilots - to contribute to restoring the dignity to our careers. Will you vote NO or cave in and continue to "lower the bar"?

P.S. No whining about how you have bills to pay and mouths to feed. A very notorious group within our profession (i.e. scabs) used that very excuse to do the inexcusable. (And NO - I am NOT calling you all scabs). Stand up and have some self respect.

 

[samballs]

Well said. Please stop lowering the value of the profession. Enough is enough!

It's easy to talk tough when things are going well. NOW is the time to "walk the walk" and tell management no thanks. If that means the company goes BK then so be it. It's easy to tell everyone else that they are "lowering the bar". Now is the time for YOU - Xjet pilots - to contribute to restoring the dignity to our careers. Will you vote NO or cave in and continue to "lower the bar"?

P.S. No whining about how you have bills to pay and mouths to feed. A very notorious group within our profession (i.e. scabs) used that very excuse to do the inexcusable. (And NO - I am NOT calling you all scabs). Stand up and have some self respect.

XJT pilots were all over Comair pilots for paycuts taken in BK. Guess you guys will do the same without a gun held to your head.

 

[dnkt]

I work for XJT and I already voted NO. It's sad that we have a bunch of cowards that are willing to bend over and let management give it to them anyway they like it. They all keep using the excuse of BK and were going to lose our contract. Grow some balls you girls and stand up for your profession....

 

[samballs]

I work for XJT and I already voted NO. It's sad that we have a bunch of cowards that are willing to bend over and let management give it to them anyway they like it. They all keep using the excuse of BK and were going to lose our contract. Grow some balls you girls and stand up for your profession....

We unfortunately had 51% of our pilot group choke. The people that voted for the contract were the ones hurt most by the POS. Now they're back on reserve and or in the right seat (senior guys and very jr capts voted yes).

 

[av8tor4239]

National is a bunch of hypocrits.

you are just figuring this out now... what planet have you been on??

Are they still tapping into your 401K contributions while the higher ups are collecting 400,000 dollar salaries on the backs of airline pilots retirement contri's??

 

[Nevets]

I'm sorry but I see a glaring absence here. Can anyone tell me what kind of cut the management team has taken??

Anyone??

Hello??

The CEO took a 10% cut and all non union employees took a 5% cut and lost their defined contribution plan.

 

[Nevets]

It's easy to tell everyone else that they are "lowering the bar". Now is the time for YOU - Xjet pilots - to contribute to restoring the dignity to our careers. Will you vote NO or cave in and continue to "lower the bar"?

XJT pilots have been contributing to restoring the dignity to our careers by being at the top of the 50 seat scale and adding to that with LOA8. Even if LOA9 passes, XJT captains will still be at the top and FOs will be in the top third with the overall compensation among the top of all regionals. It wont "lower the bar." Call it caving in if it makes you feel better though.

 

[Nevets]

XJT pilots were all over Comair pilots for paycuts taken in BK. Guess you guys will do the same without a gun held to your head.

The point is to prevent the judge from pointing the gun to our heads to begin with.

 

[pipejockey]

The CEO took a 10% cut and all non union employees took a 5% cut and lost their defined contribution plan.

Wow! From something like 1,000,000 to 900,000? How will he ever put food on the table? Will he still be able to pay his mortgage? Or buy his kid a Christmas present? Now on the other hand, that 5-10 percent he's stealing from the fo's who are earning 30-35 grand a year is significant, when it already takes all of what is left of that 30-35 grand after taxes just to exist!

These multimillionaire executives and upper management not only in this industry but in corporations nationwide need to be put in front of a firing squad, then strung up in the town square for all to see. Let the vultures pick at them, it will be the only time they ever served a useful purpose in their lives of excesses, overindulgence, and outright whitecollar crime! Let them rot in hell!

 

[Nevets]

Wow! From something like 1,000,000 to 900,000? How will he ever put food on the table? Will he still be able to pay his mortgage? Or buy his kid a Christmas present? Now on the other hand, that 5-10 percent he's stealing from the fo's who are earning 30-35 grand a year is significant, when it already takes all of what is left of that 30-35 grand after taxes just to exist!

These multimillionaire executives and upper management not only in this industry but in corporations nationwide need to be put in front of a firing squad, then strung up in the town square for all to see. Let the vultures pick at them, it will be the only time they ever served a useful purpose in their lives of excesses, overindulgence, and outright whitecollar crime! Let them rot in hell!

I was just trying to answer your question and was stating fact in the process, not opinion. By the way, the XJT CEO made less than $900k in total compensation last year. Again, just pointing out fact and not opinion.

 

[HHH]

I was just trying to answer your question and was stating fact in the process, not opinion. By the way, the XJT CEO made less than $900k in total compensation last year. Again, just pointing out fact and not opinion.

Come on Nevets. Ream took a 10% pay cut! Woopee. That's just like the dignity and respect mantra a certain other airline preaches to fool the masses. It's ridiculous.

Do you realize that certain FO's are actually on welfare?

Fact is if this LOA passes Xjet would have contributed to lowering an already low bar. Quit fooling yourself. This is caving in. IF this passes, Xjet pilots - in principle - can hold nothing over those at Mesa, Republic, etc.

 

[samballs]

The point is to prevent the judge from pointing the gun to our heads to begin with.

We got more by making him (well technically the flt Att made him) thank you OH Flt atts

 

[Nevets]

Come on Nevets. Ream took a 10% pay cut! Woopee. That's just like the dignity and respect mantra a certain other airline preaches to fool the masses. It's ridiculous.

Do you realize that certain FO's are actually on welfare?

Fact is if this LOA passes Xjet would have contributed to lowering an already low bar. Quit fooling yourself. This is caving in. IF this passes, Xjet pilots - in principle - can hold nothing over those at Mesa, Republic, etc.

Look, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on the CEO. In my previous post I was just answering a question with a fact.

Fact is that if this LOA does not pass, XJT will more likely be in BK. Fact is that if this LOA passes, XJT captains will still be at the top of the industry in 50 seat rates and FOs will be in the top third. Fact is I don't care about holding nothing over Mesa and RAH, etc. Many people don't understand why Mesa and RAH have relatively poor contracts and I certainly don't blame their pilots for it. There is no fooling when you know the facts.

 

[Minimaniac]

Look, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on the CEO. In my previous post I was just answering a question with a fact.

Fact is that if this LOA does not pass, XJT will be in BK. Fact is that if this LOA passes, XJT captains will still be at the top of the industry in 50 seat rates and FOs will be in the top third. Fact is I don't care about holding nothing over Mesa and RAH, etc. Many people don't understand why Mesa and RAH have relatively poor contracts and I certainly don't blame their pilots for it. There is no fooling when you know the facts.

Whoa now. You are making too much sense. You actually understand what is going on in terms of contract status and how current contracts were arrived at. AND you did not bash anyone, call anyone a bottom feeder, scab, or wish unemployment upon anyone. I am going to recommend that the moderators ban you from posting for at least a year!

 

[cybourg10]

Come on Nevets. Ream took a 10% pay cut! Woopee. That's just like the dignity and respect mantra a certain other airline preaches to fool the masses. It's ridiculous.

Do you realize that certain FO's are actually on welfare?

Fact is if this LOA passes Xjet would have contributed to lowering an already low bar. Quit fooling yourself. This is caving in. IF this passes, Xjet pilots - in principle - can hold nothing over those at Mesa, Republic, etc.

XJT pilots wouldn't have to take a paycut if their weren't CHQ or Mesa pilots flying for less. If it passes XJT will still be the highest paid 50 jet Capatins, what does that say about the others? I would never proclaim myself as a better pilot or person because I work for XJT and I know some of our idiots have given off that vibe but most of us are good guys that are pulling for everyone to do well.

 

[HHH]

XJT pilots wouldn't have to take a paycut if their weren't CHQ or Mesa pilots flying for less. If it passes XJT will still be the highest paid 50 jet Capatins, what does that say about the others? I would never proclaim myself as a better pilot or person because I work for XJT and I know some of our idiots have given off that vibe but most of us are good guys that are pulling for everyone to do well.

Xjet has some great people and their flight ops. management team is excellent. I flew there for almost 7 years and truly enjoyed it.

However, a pay cut is a pay cut. Whether management uses a carrot (the old flow through) or a stick (threat of bk) pilots have to stand up and protect the profession. I guess if this LOA passes we could add Xjet to your above list - (i.e. "...pilots wouldn't have to take a paycut if their weren't CHQ or Mesa OR XJET pilots flying for less). cybourg10, even at your current payrates YOU think that you are underpaid (reference your profile "underpaid"). Why settle for less when you are already "underpaid".

Nevets,
Don't get me wrong, I respect your position and understand looking at losing your job is daunting. I was furloughed from Xjet for two years. BK is not a sure thing. Too many people are behaving like BK is a foregone conclusion. Regardless, even if BK is the only other option, the point is the profession has already bottomed out. Until FO's are no longer on food stamps there should not even be a hint of concessions. As someone asked earlier, just how little do you think you are worth?

With your logic, as long as BK is threatened, pilots should simply give in just to live another day. Let's call spade a spade. That's not standing up for our profession. That is caving in and thinking of yourself only.

 

[cybourg10]

Xjet has some great people and their flight ops. management team is excellent. I flew there for almost 7 years and truly enjoyed it.

However, a pay cut is a pay cut. Whether management uses a carrot (the old flow through) or a stick (threat of bk) pilots have to stand up and protect the profession. I guess if this LOA passes we could add Xjet to your above list - (i.e. "...pilots wouldn't have to take a paycut if their weren't CHQ or Mesa OR XJET pilots flying for less). cybourg10, even at your current payrates YOU think that you are underpaid (reference your profile "underpaid"). Why settle for less when you are already "underpaid".

Nevets,
Don't get me wrong, I respect your position and understand looking at losing your job is daunting. I was furloughed from Xjet for two years. BK is not a sure thing. Too many people are behaving like BK is a foregone conclusion. Regardless, even if BK is the only other option, the point is the profession has already bottomed out. Until FO's are no longer on food stamps there should not even be a hint of concessions. As someone asked earlier, just how little do you think you are worth?

With your logic, as long as BK is threatened, pilots should simply give in just to live another day. Let's call spade a spade. That's not standing up for our profession. That is caving in and thinking of yourself only.

I assume you know many of the guys in our MEC. They have done a great job with contract 04 and every LOA since IMHO. I came over to XJT from Trans States last year, so I know what it is like to be working under a crappy contract. I do not like the situation we are in and it sucks to be here but I think we all have our mind set up on the issue of paycuts because of how BAD they have been handled by every single major airline pilot group since 9/11. Our union did a great job here with this LOA, we do lose 2.83% but our 401k match and leading work rules stay intact. Plus, management can not take a bonus or raise without us going back to our original pay immediately (i think a few groups would have loved to have that recently). How did we come to this crossroad? Well CAL demanded we fly for the same "cost saving rates" as Skywest was willing to offer. Why can Skywest offer less, well they have less labor cost per pilot than XJT (I did not make this up, it was a quote from our union after the SKW meetings). The only way for XJT to cut cost is to cut pay for everyone, every employee is taking a hit. I do not need someone that has no knowledge of the inner workings of my airline to tell me how to vote because they have their minds made up that taking a paycut is the worse thing in the world. We will have to take a small paycut and try to keep our airline around to fight another day or we can vote no and go into bankruptcy and have CAL pull 10-15 a/c a month from us and give them to SKW or CHQ (again this is what our management and union has stated will happen)........I am sorry a few of you have a rotten taste in your mouth when XJT comes up because of a few morons that ran their mouth because they think they were "better" then other regional pilots just b/c they work for XJT. Every airline will have hard times and it is unfortunate that we have had the issues we currently have but I want this airline to be around and it is the advice from my trusted MEC that voting yes is the ONLY way this will happen. Hopefully we all get through this difficult time and no one else loses their job. Again I understand the ill will towards XJT because of some ignorant pilots we have that say idiotic things but that is not the norm over here, I will vote yes and hope that we can avoid ch 11 and live to fight another day and get our pay back (plus more) during contract 2010. I think we all need to stop trashing other airline pilots on their own situation, there is plenty that can be improved with our own contract before we start giving other groups advice.

 

[cybourg10]

And to answer your other question, I think I am worth $1,000,000 a year but being a realist a know that I am worth only what I can negotiate and I can't negotiate X amount when others will do the same job for X-10%. Not in the airline industry anyway. I think of this situation as a one step back before we move two steps forward type of deal. cheers......

 

[HHH]

I assume you know many of the guys in our MEC. They have done a great job with contract 04 and every LOA since IMHO. I came over to XJT from Trans States last year, so I know what it is like to be working under a crappy contract. I do not like the situation we are in and it sucks to be here but I think we all have our mind set up on the issue of paycuts because of how BAD they have been handled by every single major airline pilot group since 9/11. Our union did a great job here with this LOA, we do lose 2.83% but our 401k match and leading work rules stay intact. Plus, management can not take a bonus or raise without us going back to our original pay immediately (i think a few groups would have loved to have that recently). How did we come to this crossroad? Well CAL demanded we fly for the same "cost saving rates" as Skywest was willing to offer. Why can Skywest offer less, well they have less labor cost per pilot than XJT (I did not make this up, it was a quote from our union after the SKW meetings). The only way for XJT to cut cost is to cut pay for everyone, every employee is taking a hit. I do not need someone that has no knowledge of the inner workings of my airline to tell me how to vote because they have their minds made up that taking a paycut is the worse thing in the world. We will have to take a small paycut and try to keep our airline around to fight another day or we can vote no and go into bankruptcy and have CAL pull 10-15 a/c a month from us and give them to SKW or CHQ (again this is what our management and union has stated will happen)........I am sorry a few of you have a rotten taste in your mouth when XJT comes up because of a few morons that ran their mouth because they think they were "better" then other regional pilots just b/c they work for XJT. Every airline will have hard times and it is unfortunate that we have had the issues we currently have but I want this airline to be around and it is the advice from my trusted MEC that voting yes is the ONLY way this will happen. Hopefully we all get through this difficult time and no one else loses their job. Again I understand the ill will towards XJT because of some ignorant pilots we have that say idiotic things but that is not the norm over here, I will vote yes and hope that we can avoid ch 11 and live to fight another day and get our pay back (plus more) during contract 2010. I think we all need to stop trashing other airline pilots on their own situation, there is plenty that can be improved with our own contract before we start giving other groups advice.

The ONLY reason that I would even consider this LOA is because of the trustworthy and diligent MEC and union leadership at Xjet. I agree that they did a great job on Contract 04 and (most) LOA's since. They are class guys that, IMHO, truly have the best interests of the pilot group as their priority.

However, in the end the only reason I see many voting yes on this LOA is because of FEAR. As I and someone else asked Nevets - how little do you think you are worth? If Ream said you needed to take a 50% pay cut or the airline would go bankrupt would you give in?

 

[cybourg10]

However, in the end the only reason I see many voting yes on this LOA is because of FEAR. As I and someone else asked Nevets - how little do you think you are worth? If Ream said you needed to take a 50% pay cut or the airline would go bankrupt would you give in?

You say "give in" as if it is a wuss move to take a 2.83% paycut when your union has seen the company's books and had a third party team has determined that without paycuts form all groups the company will go bankrupt. I am not "giving in" to anything. I do not like the situation but I have the ability to leave emotion out of my decision. I would not take a 50% cut but a one time 2.83% that still leaves me at the TOP of my sector's pay in the industry is not too much to ask during these economic times. I am not voting on fear, nor should anyone else. I have listened to conference calls, read the new CPA with CAL, called my reps, and gone to roadshows. I am capable of making an informed decision without letting fear drive my thinking. I can replace a 40k a year salary easily, I am not scared of losing my job. Just curious who do you fly for now?

 

[Baronman]

However, in the end the only reason I see many voting yes on this LOA is because of FEAR. As I and someone else asked Nevets - how little do you think you are worth? If Ream said you needed to take a 50% pay cut or the airline would go bankrupt would you give in?

I see many of the people against the LOA using this line..."FEAR..." You guys have "FEAR."

I think this is their way of subtly saying that you're less of a man or something for being scared.

 

[V1rowt8]

Bourg,

The proposed concession is much more than 2.83%. Say for a Captain currently earning around $79.69 an hour will see $85.46 an hour by next year decreasing his pay by $8.02 an hour if this concession is voted in. Not to mention the 401k contribution lost from the conceded pay. And in a year the pay would be increased not by 2.83% but by 2.06%. Combine this with the fact that average line values are down dramatically, one will see a realized pay cut of a minimum of $1000 to $2500 a month. The price of oil is dropping, many experts expect it to be in the $60 a barrell soon. Our job is to do our job, fly folks from here to there professionaly. And that is what we should be paid as, Professionals. Not to mention that many of our first officers can qualify for food stamps already!! I for one will be voting no. If there was a hell no box, I would check that one too!!