Expressjet concessionary LOA/TA out

[Turtlesfly]

Well it was only a matter of time . . . came out yesterday.

I can't give details because nobody understands them. It's a bit of weird math that we're awaiting some clarification on. If you've had 2 beers, there's no hope in getting it for a while. Basically it's a 2.8% cut with some freezes that brings your pay cut from anywhere from 5% to 30%, depending on a bunch of stuff.

Basically, the pilot reaction seems to be a 50/50 civil war. We're arguing with each other, and, sadly, this represents another tremendous defeat for ALPA since we are showing 0% unity.

Maybe the fact that ALPA national agreed to this piece of ******************** shows what they really think of "taking it back."

National is a bunch of hypocrits.

 

[sweptback]

Maybe I'm missing something, but your MEC chose to put out the concessionary TA, not National.

ALPA National (more correctly, Prater) only signs off on it once it passes your membership. Given that XJT most likely meets the criteria for concessionary bargaining, it will be signed off upon.

That being said, what little money this would save the company won't do anything for its bottom line. If the company is unprofitable, a 2.8% or 5% cut isn't going to change that.

 

[Turtlesfly]

ALPA national did approve it - we used their people to look at the books to validate how dire the company's bottom line is. Our MEC used national's advice that said we basically have no choice.

At least, that's one version of the story.

 

[11thHour]

Don't forget to factor in the additional medical premium costs, and now even more inflation (thanks bailout!). It seems many don't even consider these.

 

[Turtlesfly]

Don't forget to factor in the additional medical premium costs, and now even more inflation (thanks bailout!). It seems many don't even consider these.

Well I think everybody's mind is already made up. We have a bunch of roadshows coming up, but people are already very vocal either supporting it or denying it. I give it a big fat HELL NO.

But mark it: I still predict it passes by 60% there-abouts.

 

[Turtlesfly]

The other thing we're pissed about is that the company/union waited until TWO DAYS after all of the furloughed pilots were shown the door. So by eliminating those potential "no" votes, it helped the yes vote to gain strength. Way to help out the industry!

If that wasn't the plan, it sure at least looks like it was.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Well it was only a matter of time . . . came out yesterday.

I can't give details because nobody understands them. It's a bit of weird math that we're awaiting some clarification on. If you've had 2 beers, there's no hope in getting it for a while. Basically it's a 2.8% cut with some freezes that brings your pay cut from anywhere from 5% to 30%, depending on a bunch of stuff.

Basically, the pilot reaction seems to be a 50/50 civil war. We're arguing with each other, and, sadly, this represents another tremendous defeat for ALPA since we are showing 0% unity.

Maybe the fact that ALPA national agreed to this piece of ******************** shows what they really think of "taking it back."

National is a bunch of hypocrits.

You should hold out and "take it back" until you go out of business. That'll show 'em!

Have you looked at the economy lately? None of us are going to "take it back." Let's be realistic here.

 

[777forever]

You should hold out and "take it back" until you go out of business. That'll show 'em!

Have you looked at the economy lately? None of us are going to "take it back." Let's be realistic here.

The question here is that expressjet pilots have to take into serious consideration whether the cutbacks will actually save the company. If not, XJET pilots are giving away free money....

 

[crusader 22]

Why the hell have a union if they can't do anything to improve the situation for regional pilots? Heck, if you drop alpa there's a 2% raise right there!

 

[wmuflyguy]

Why the hell have a union if they can't do anything to improve the situation for regional pilots? Heck, if you drop alpa there's a 2% raise right there!

Except the company would quickly take that 2% or more, just because they can and they can find someone to do it for less.

 

[Axel]

OK, Express Jetters, here is your chance to hold the line and save the profession.

No fair dissing the other regionals and blaming them for your woes. You say they fail to step up; now it's your turn at bat.

"I just want to tell you [all] good luck. We're all counting on you."

 

[11thHour]

The question here is that expressjet pilots have to take into serious consideration whether the cutbacks will actually save the company. If not, XJET pilots are giving away free money....

IMO it won't save the company from BK. They've admitted that should the company get all concessions they seek, it would bring us from operating at a loss, to a 0% profit margin, or barely break even, in the current economy. The company needs to find a way to actually make money, and the union admitted that would largely if not solely depend upon them being able to secure more flying for another airline - which isn't going to happen unless 'someone' goes bankrupt, or the industry expands.

I was against the taxpayer bailout those idiots in congress just passed, and I'm also against the employee funded bailout of XJT.

 

[joe_pilot]

Sounds like a choice between bad and worse. Good luck guys.

 

[crj567]

I would not be surprised to see more of these concessionary things popping up soon.

I saw a crap-pile of XJT ERJs parked out at SHV a couple of weeks ago.

-These are tough times to be a pilot-a scumbag airline manager's wet dream, though!

 

[georgeavia]

I’m undecided either way, but taking a 6-7% wage cut with the hopes that we will eventually break even on this new CPA with CAL leaves me wondering...

 

[dojetdriver]

That being said, what little money this would save the company won't do anything for its bottom line. If the company is unprofitable, a 2.8% or 5% cut isn't going to change that.

Glad somebody gets that concept. The barns on fire, throwing a bucket of water on it WON'T put it out.

But just to clarify, it's not ONLY the pilots taking the cut. MX is in talks about their cut, and non union employees have already felt the pinch. So it's company wide.

No fair dissing the other regionals and blaming them for your woes. You say they fail to step up; now it's your turn at bat.

Agreed. I always thought it was funny when I got hired how guys would thump their chest and rip on other carriers. Especially those that didn't have the benefit of negotiation a CBA when times were relatively "good" . Sad part is, all those guys ALSO used to say stupid things like "we're too good of an operation to CAL try and get the cost down", or my favorite "CAL likes us too much". Sad part was, most of those guys had yet to see how ugly it CAN be. They get to see it now.

I saw a crap-pile of XJT ERJs parked out at SHV a couple of weeks ago.

Well, we do have a MX base there. If they were XR's they are waiting to be painted before going back into COEX service.

If they weren't, many were slated to be parked ANYWAY so it's nothing new.

 

[lookin4better]

tough break

 

[Skippy]

national told us to accept geauxjet and we denied their "advice" granted they are hiring and TSA is furloughing, but its a little thing called respect and living with yourself and your decisions and holding the line.

Fine expressjet wants a little cut, then not one single furlough and min flying to 60 hours--- quid pro quo-- soemthing for something--- im sick of the something being " well you have a job" be thankful.

dont give one single penny, it wont make a bit of difference. if they cant generate a few extra percent then they dont deserve to have jobs themselves.

UFB

SKIPPY

 

[Nevets]

Basically it's a 2.8% cut with some freezes that brings your pay cut from anywhere from 5% to 30%, depending on a bunch of stuff.

Where does the 30% come from?

Maybe the fact that ALPA national agreed to this piece of ******************** shows what they really think of "taking it back."

National is a bunch of hypocrits.

ALPA national didn't do anything other than to have the Economic & Financial Analysis department go over the books at the MEC's request. They did not give a recommendation one way or another. The MEC made its choice independently.

 

[Nevets]

Why the hell have a union if they can't do anything to improve the situation for regional pilots? Heck, if you drop alpa there's a 2% raise right there!

If ALPA wasn't representing XJT pilots the company would have just taken however big of a cut from the pilots without any of them having any say in the matter.

 

[Nevets]

OK, Express Jetters, here is your chance to hold the line and save the profession.

No fair dissing the other regionals and blaming them for your woes. You say they fail to step up; now it's your turn at bat.

"I just want to tell you [all] good luck. We're all counting on you."

By the way, assuming this gets ratified, XJT captains would still be at the top of the industry in pay rates for 50 seat jets (I think Eagle may have slightly higher rates for the first year) and FOs would be in the top third.

 

[Nevets]

But just to clarify, it's not ONLY the pilots taking the cut. MX is in talks about their cut, and non union employees have already felt the pinch. So it's company wide.

Right, its pilots, mechanics, dispatchers, and flight attendants. All but the FAs have reached a TA so far.

 

[Axel]

By the way, assuming this gets ratified, XJT captains would still be at the top of the industry in pay rates for 50 seat jets (I think Eagle may have slightly higher rates for the first year) and FOs would be in the top third.

Good. Doesn't matter.

A concession that results in pay being lowered only a little is still a concession.

"I'll only put it in a little bit."

 

[Nevets]

Good. Doesn't matter.

A concession that results in pay being lowered only a little is still a concession.

"I'll only put it in a little bit."

I was merely trying to add some factual information to the discussion.

 

[Axel]

Some of you guys have been pretty harsh, in the airports and on the boards. You now have the opportunity to live up to the same standard to which you have held others.

Don't get me wrong. I'd like nothing more than to see the Express Jetters do just that. Good luck. The world is watching.

 

[Nevets]

Some of you guys have been pretty harsh, in the airports and on the boards. You now have the opportunity to live up to the same standard to which you have held others.

Don't get me wrong. I'd like nothing more than to see the Express Jetters do just that. Good luck. The world is watching.

Here is another perspective I've heard in the past, even before any concession talks: Its very difficult to maintain this "standard" when no one else was able to follow you. This seems to repeat itself and XJT just seems to be then next one who was left hanging out there by themselves.

Anyways, even if this is ratified, it wont have much negative effect on the 50 seat pay rates for others who follow XJT in their turn in section 6.

 

[Raoul Duke]

top of the 50 seat scale? wow - that must be so exciting for you every 2 weeks! XJet guys are the first on this board to trash talk any other carriers, time to walk the walk boys, hold the line and tell them to go pound sand.

Also all of you defending ALPA national, you have no idea what you are talking about. Alpa Natnl has 100% discretion to approve or deny contracts. Just ask the guys from CCAir, they voted in favor of a contract by nearly 90% and Woerthless refused to sign it. How is Prater "taking it back" on this deal.

 

[crusader 22]

If ALPA wasn't representing XJT pilots the company would have just taken however big of a cut from the pilots without any of them having any say in the matter.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe XJT, like comair, has reached the end of the road. Taking a pay cut might make you feel better but it ain't going to stop the inevitable.

 

[Nevets]

top of the 50 seat scale? wow - that must be so exciting for you every 2 weeks! XJet guys are the first on this board to trash talk any other carriers, time to walk the walk boys, hold the line and tell them to go pound sand.

Also all of you defending ALPA national, you have no idea what you are talking about. Alpa Natnl has 100% discretion to approve or deny contracts. Just ask the guys from CCAir, they voted in favor of a contract by nearly 90% and Woerthless refused to sign it. How is Prater "taking it back" on this deal.

More exciting than being at the bottom of the scale. Look, it seems as though you are reveling in the possible concession of a great contract. Everyone at the regional level should look with their eyes wide open on what transpired to lead to this. If this is what you mean by trash talking, I apologize but I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em.

Again, ALPA national had NOTHING to do with approving anything dealing with this LOA.

 

[Nevets]

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe XJT, like comair, has reached the end of the road. Taking a pay cut might make you feel better but it ain't going to stop the inevitable.

Everything is either maybe or maybe not.