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Ex-United pilots weigh future without pension

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Amazing some of the attitudes on this board. I am an old fart and in the past there were some great airlines. Real airlines not just some swinging dick that could sell a ticket for less than the guy next door. The hiring was not done via some internet chat sight and while there were a host of chatacters that slipped through the cracks, for the most part they were a pretty good bunch of pilots and had a sense of character that is not always seen on this board.

Story in point. I have a good friend whose father, a medically retired UAL pilot passed away after a lengthy period of illness. His mother who also depended on the UAL retirement and more importantly medical is seriously ill with Alzheimers. (sp)? Basically this person is at serious risk for a lack of health insurance and the burden of dedicated care that she needs to sustain life, not just quality life, but life period. This is just one of many things that can wipe you out financially in a nano second.

Therefore I hope all of you with such insight and life experiences have at least a million dollars or more to assist if and when something like this strikes you or your family. I doubt if there is enough SWA stock in anyones portfolio to handle some of the really sh@#y things that can come your way, overnight in some cases.

If anyone on this board thinks that SWA or JetBlue are immune to the same issues that have befallen some of the great airlines of the past, and not just ones here in the US, but all over the world, then you are doomed to repeat the same failures, although it might be for different reason.

A pretty good book to read is called "Sky Gods". It chronicles the glory days of hiring and flying for Pan Am starting in the mid sixties. Pretty heady stuff that would certainly lure most if not all aspiring airline pilots to believe that they were bullet proof. Witten by a former PAA/DAL pilot.

Getting long winded here so I'll get of my soap box and just say that first of all getting a handle on an individuals sistuation via a news paper account is risky at best. Secondly there are so many variables to life that those who preach are at best just blowing smoke up your ass.
 
canyonblue said:
And just as sad there are people on this board that seem to feel for them, rather than the ones who are suffering the most in this world.

You just don't quite get it, do you. No one on this thread has indicated this choice.

Your post was arrogant, ignorant and selfish.

Put me on your avoidance list also! :rolleyes:
 
posted by canyonblue:

"Many of us, myself included, see an implosion here in possibly 10-15 years unless some things change."

After reading your previous posts if the above scenario occurs I don't think you'll be getting much sympathy from the aviation community. I don't care who you are, losing 80% of your retirement overnight is a big deal.
 
TAZ MAN said:
Put me on your avoidance list also! :rolleyes:

PM me your employee number please!

I don't care who you are, losing 80% of your retirement overnight is a big deal.

What about the ones who lost 100%. Sheesh you just don't get it.
 
canyonblue said:
PM me your employee number please!



What about the ones who lost 100%. Sheesh you just don't get it.

First, I don't work for SWA. Second, you are still clueless.
 
Canyon-

Your argument makes no sense. You seem to imply that since some people lost 100% of their retirements those who only lost 80% have no reason to bitch. Well by that logic anyone who owns more than one pair of shoes or gets to eat each day has no reason to complain. Regional pilots shouldn't be complaining about making 22k/year when kids are starving in India, right? Why should someone who dedicated 30+ years of their life be dissapointed when it all goes down the toilet? Atleast it's better than a sharp stick in the eye.

You come across as arrogant, ignorant, and without compassion. That's a nasty combo...
 
Andy said:
Skykid did a very good job of answering your question. (Why was it necessary to terminate the pensions?) To reiterate, UAL will not be able to get exit financing without shedding the pension plans...Legacy airlines can't compete with startups who don't have those costs.
Yes he did. I have a follow-on if I may... Noted that legacies can't compete with LCCs if they retain defined pension plans...

Why could not language have been inserted to the effect, "who retire after this date." In other words, protect the previous pensioners until they die as a mandatory fixed cost (contracted benefits) but fund no new or additional defined pension benefits (under the old rules) on current working pilots? Was it reluctantly viewed as an item not worth falling on a sword over when facing possible liquidation?

I understand it's water under the bridge now, and I'm just trying to understand how you explain these changes to Aunt Mabel.
 
Birdstrike said:
Why could not language have been inserted to the effect, "who retire after this date." In other words, protect the previous pensioners until they die as a mandatory fixed cost (contracted benefits) but fund no new or additional defined pension benefits (under the old rules) on current working pilots? Was it reluctantly viewed as an item not worth falling on a sword over when facing possible liquidation?

What you are describing is freezing a defined benefit plan. This has been done at a number of companies, where on x date, employees no longer accrue additional pension benefits.
In a way, this is what has happened at UAL. Everyone who has contributed until pension termination will receive a monthly payment from the PBGC. It will just be smaller than prior to termination of the pension plan.
IF UAL had frozen everyone's pensions, UAL would have to cough up an additional $8.3 billion ($1.9 billion for the pilots alone) to make up for the current shortfall in the pension plans. That $8.3 billion would have allowed everyone who accrued a pension to be paid at the rate that they had anticipated. So even taking that action (freezing the pensions) would have caused exit financiers a great deal of heartburn; $8.3 billion of additional debt would most likely be unacceptable.

It is unfortunate that the pension plans will be cancelled, but UAL faces no choice in the matter. It is either turn the pension plans over to the PBGC and hopefully survive, or UAL could continue the pension plans, causing UAL to go chap 7, resulting in the PBGC paying out reduced pensions to former UAL employees. Either way, UAL retirees will eventually be paid a reduced pension from the PBGC.
 
Earn major airline pay for 35 years. Fly a bunch of nice airplanes.
Spend your self silly.

Bitch to a bunch of poor regional and freight guys who never had the 'lucky break' = arrogant and insensitive.

You had a good run, it didn't work out as planned. Don't expect a lot of tears from those of us who also get n pensions and din't earn all the money you did. Plan your retiremnt wisely, and don't be fools by counting on company pensions.
 
canyonblue said:
PM me your employee number please!



What about the ones who lost 100%. Sheesh you just don't get it.

You are the one that doesn't get it. SWA dude reminds me of the guys I used to work with that are now SWA pilots. Guys I might add that were a real pleasure to work with and perfect fits for SWA. How you slipped in over there Canyon....well not even SWA has a perfect interview process. You demonstrate that often on this forum.
 

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