Endeavor can't fill a class!

[jynxyjericho]

I think you misunderstand. Management is who I direct my distain at. All pilots deserve fair pay for what is a very responsible job. Unfortunately, some are prepared to accept less.

and will continue to be hard to forget how you sold us down the river.

I refer you to your own post.

This pay isn't about what is deserved. When your company files for BK it isn't about what is right or fair. If you want to continue operation and not find yourself in liquidation you have a legal responsibility to negotiate in good faith. We got a lot of help from the NY bk judge thanks to ALPAs hard work, but he even said he would have to force something onto us next. Thankfully he fired some shots at Pinnacle for their lack of negotiations with the pilots and that got them moving toward the middle. It's not perfect, but its better tgan the alternatives.

I hope you don't have to do the same and can continue firing cheap shots from a cozy place.

 

[SoberIrishman]

....and I hope you find a way out of Endeavor soon!

 

[jynxyjericho]

Thank you, shouldn't be long.

 

[suupah]

Thank you, shouldn't be long.

That's what she said

 

[twott driver]

The difference between a bunkruptcy imposed contract and that PoS you all happily voted for is that you can start negotiations the minute you emerge from bankruptcy with the imposed contract. You and the rest of the industry get to live with that miserable insult of a contract for its duration, because you are easily cowed and VOTED for it. And you will like it. Well played gentlemen

 

[WMUSIGPI]

The difference between a bunkruptcy imposed contract and that PoS you all happily voted for is that you can start negotiations the minute you emerge from bankruptcy with the imposed contract. You and the rest of the industry get to live with that miserable insult of a contract for its duration, because you are easily cowed and VOTED for it. And you will like it. Well played gentlemen

NO NO NO, if we voted no the mighty Delta would have treated us like Comair and parked our airplanes and put us on the street This way we will grow like a weed :laugh:

 

[jynxyjericho]

That's what she said

You are correct sir.

The difference between a bunkruptcy imposed contract and that PoS you all happily voted for is that you can start negotiations the minute you emerge from bankruptcy with the imposed contract. You and the rest of the industry get to live with that miserable insult of a contract for its duration, because you are easily cowed and VOTED for it. And you will like it. Well played gentlemen

Let's go down that road you would have chose for us. So we would have to start negotiating with sub GoJet pay and no soft pay (judge imposed contract)? Holy crap that sounds like a lot of fun.

As a wholly owned subsidiary they can make us look break even every month. Negotiations would take years, and we'd have no leverage.

If your goal is to be perfectly obsinate, thats fine, but the NMB will park your butt (reference Pinnacle TA1), and you'll get nothing. The courts, the NMB, and company, expect you to act like professionals during the negotiating process, if you don't because you want to beat your chest you will be punished. It's ok, I run into your opinion regularly with pilots because they think they are alphas. However, their only tool in the chest is to cry loudly and stomp their feet. The bk judge isn't your mommy, this isn't the toy store, no one on the other side of the table is embarrassed if they have to beat the hell out of you in public.

The reality is, the regional industry is about to implode and everyone prayed we would go down and spare them. I'm sorry, the majority of our pilot group is like yours, we don't live with our parents and a crap job is better than no job. Plus a lot of them could take a payout check and run to the next airline or regional. Our company ran out of money just as the industry we are in is contracting immensely. Facts are facts. We ran aground and that has costs, for the investors (owners) that means losing everything. What you are suggesting makes no sense when you are educated in and, God forbid, live through the process.

The situation we are in now isn't great, but there are a few advantages. The company has to come to the table every time they want something now. We took some bets on the future and made sure to put a few traps in the contract for the company. Already the company has tried to negotiate a signing bonus for new hires, we won't allow it without pay restoration. They want co domicile, sure, open up the checkbook boys. Delta, supposedly, wants us to grow but they cant get more than 4 in the door at a time. They want to attract new hires with an SSP, sure, open up the check book boys.

It's not a great position to be in, no doubt, but given the option of liquidation or judge imposed contract? Phht. I'll take my chances with this vs whatever bit of stupidity you come up with to make you feel better.

 

[jynxyjericho]

NO NO NO, if we voted no the mighty Delta would have treated us like Comair and parked our airplanes and put us on the street This way we will grow like a weed :laugh:

Slow wind downs vs liquidation? The majority of the pilots didn't take paycuts to grow the airline. They did it to keep a paycheck coming while they found another job. If your imagined scenario was real, youd expect a lot of our pilots to have stayed. Right now we have lost more than 1/3rd and 50 are leaving a month.

Don't act dense.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Plus a lot of them could take a payout check and run to the next airline or regional. .

Oh the IRONY. Run to the next regional that now has downward pressure put on it to take cuts. Because of YOU.

Even AAG is telling Eagle that it has to compete with Delta getting cheaper feed so THEY need to take cuts.

Congrats on leading the way.

 

[Flyer1015]

Is anybody really showing up to class when the end state is 81 planes? Why do so when Compass offers much better alternatives for basically the same bases (sans JFK).

 

[jynxyjericho]

Oh the IRONY. Run to the next regional that now has downward pressure put on it to take cuts. Because of YOU.

Even AAG is telling Eagle that it has to compete with Delta getting cheaper feed so THEY need to take cuts.

Congrats on leading the way.

Oh I see where you're going.

Downward pressure on wages is going to happen in an industry that is going to shrink by more than a half.

Does everyone seriously attribute your wage pressure to Pinnacles BK contract? Sorry, but the industry is shrinking. Pinnacle was going to fall or take a paycut,that's the way we are going.

Thank God Eagle can fire back "we'll those paycuts sure are working well for Endeavor aren't they?"

 

[big shacks]

Who's running? 2010 Colgan hires and some pinnacle guys ran to compass, but the rest are leaving to LCC's and Airways. I would have gladly come over to your airline if you guys offered me 04 longevity...but let's get real here...that ******************** ain't going to happen! 9E shuts downs+planes are distributed out to other regionals+no one gives a ********************. ALPA could give a rats ass about any regional pilot.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

....and I hope you find a way out of Endeavor soon!

Thanks!!

Maybe if you foreigners had not lowered the wages for flight instructors to $15 (while your Country supplemented your income)20 years ago? Maybe if you foreigners had not been able to work in my country and take my mainline job 15 years ago (I hear you everyday on the radio)? Maybe if you had not been able to keep dual citizenship and the like, hookup with a women and get your greencard and citizenship? I mean, I can't work in your country.

I know you guys are great pilots and super educated, but you guys have done a number on the US Airline Industry.

If we kicked all you guys out, nobody would have been on furlough and wages would have gone up years ago.

My Father fought for this Country. My Grandfather fought for this Country. My Great GrandFather fought for this country. And now, I have to fight you for a job, while you judge me. Why don't you go back home and fly for your Country? Thanks for spending your flight training money here, but is it time to go home? Yea?

I really had to work hard to compete for Flight Instructor jobs, 135 Jobs, 121 Regional Jobs and now Mainline Jobs. I know you guys are good, but show some respect. You guys are the real problem here. But, let's not forget who owns most of the flight schools in the country. And that is what has been the benefit for you. Peace!

 

[SoberIrishman]

Completely wrong. You know nothing about anyone here. I hope you have a better day tomorrow.

 

[pilotyip]

Thanks!!

Maybe if you foreigners had not lowered the wages for flight instructors to $15 (while your Country supplemented your income)20 years ago? Maybe if you foreigners had not been able to work in my country and take my mainline job 15 years ago (I hear you everyday on the radio)? Maybe if you had not been able to keep dual citizenship and the like, hookup with a women and get your greencard and citizenship? I mean, I can't work in your country.

I know you guys are great pilots and super educated, but you guys have done a number on the US Airline Industry.

If we kicked all you guys out, nobody would have been on furlough and wages would have gone up years ago.

My Father fought for this Country. My Grandfather fought for this Country. My Great GrandFather fought for this country. And now, I have to fight you for a job, while you judge me. Why don't you go back home and fly for your Country? Thanks for spending your flight training money here, but is it time to go home? Yea?

I really had to work hard to compete for Flight Instructor jobs, 135 Jobs, 121 Regional Jobs and now Mainline Jobs. I know you guys are good, but show some respect. You guys are the real problem here. But, let's not forget who owns most of the flight schools in the country. And that is what has been the benefit for you. Peace!

Unless you are a Native American, you are an immigrant. My wife and I look back at our grandparents, they were all born outside of the US, Canada, Belgium, Norway, and England. Immigrants coming to this country is part of what makes it great. We are one of the few of the G-20 nations that have a birthrate that exceeds our death rate.

BTW These immigrants also fight for this country, it is a path to citizenship. You will find them in military cemeteries all over the United States.

 

[1.3XVso]

Unless you are a Native American, you are an immigrant. My wife and I look back at our grandparents, they were all born outside of the US, Canada, Belgium, Norway, and England. Immigrants coming to this country is part of what makes it great. We are one of the few of the G-20 nations that have a birthrate that exceeds our death rate.

BTW These immigrants also fight for this country, it is a path to citizenship. You will find them in military cemeteries all over the United States.

The best post I've read! Also America does not have a national language.

 

[jynxyjericho]

This thread is officially off the rails. Blame the immigrants? How long has that been in your craw NEWSOUTH? Well someone just needs to invoke Godwins law and we can officially bed this one down.

 

[doh]

I'm a Native American. I was born here. And the remains they discovered that have Caucasian DNA give me as much right to claim native status as anyone.

 

[Indy319FA]

Unless you are a Native American, you are an immigrant. My wife and I look back at our grandparents, they were all born outside of the US, Canada, Belgium, Norway, and England. Immigrants coming to this country is part of what makes it great. We are one of the few of the G-20 nations that have a birthrate that exceeds our death rate.

BTW These immigrants also fight for this country, it is a path to citizenship. You will find them in military cemeteries all over the United States.

I don't think his point was directed at immigration in general, but foreign pilots coming here, building their time while driving wages down, and high tailing it out of here for the first high paying foreign gig they can get.

My family has been in this country since the mid 1700s. I have Cherokees in my ancestry. So what does this have to do with a modern, global economy? Nothing. This country for too long has sat back and allowed the Europeans to get away with murder when it comes to aviation. Airbus and its subsidies wrecked McDonnell Douglas. European pilots can come here, build their time, and head back to their protected jobs in Europe. We allow any of these guys to convert their licenses to US licenses. If I want to go fly it Europe I have to pay for an expensive course. The US needs to adopt a reciprocal policy when it comes to this stuff. If a country places restrictions on converting a US license then we should respond in kind if one of their citizens wants to work here. If the Europeans continue to subsidize Airbus, then the US should place tariffs on their products to reflect the subsidy. We have the biggest aviation market in the world, and everybody wants in. Its high time we started acting like the biggest kid on the block and using our economic might to protect our own people instead of trying to get along with everybody and playing nice.

 

[suupah]

+1 indy