Endeavor can't fill a class!

[big shacks]

Those three, need to have their head examined.

 

[gojo]

Those three, need to have their head examined.

I remember all the Mesa bashing before, during, and after their bankruptcy. The vocal majority had them going out of business. Now look at them. I would think that some of the first new hires post bankruptcy are in a pretty good place right now.

 

[SoberIrishman]

The big difference is...Endeavor is now owned by Delta. Not a good thing. They can do whatever they want with them. I think we know where this will go eventually.

 

[gojo]

The big difference is...Endeavor is now owned by Delta. Not a good thing. They can do whatever they want with them. I think we know where this will go eventually.

How how exactly do you, much less we know where this will go? Do you have inside information, or are you just guessing like everyone else? There are many guesses and predictions out there. One of them may come true. But until then keep guessing

 

[jynxyjericho]

The big difference is...Endeavor is now owned by Delta. Not a good thing. They can do whatever they want with them. I think we know where this will go eventually.

Yeah, that's where we seem to be heading.

Got a question for the flightinfo brain trust. All opinions welcome.

One: Delta intends to make us a 900 only fleet of about 1000 pilots and 81 airplanes.
Since we still have 1950 pilots give or take, why hire anyone? Furthermore, the class size is 3, why dont you cancel class for lack of attendance? Classes arent free and you need the class space to transition pilots to the 900.
Delta says they will give us as many 200s as we can staff, and we cant staff and can't hire, so WHAT the hell are we doing?

Two: You cant force XJT & everyone else to take paycuts to keep airplanes or get new ones and use Endeavor as leverage. Every idiot knows we can't staff and Delta isn't trying to staff us up. Isn't a smart pilot group going to call Delta's bluff? This is silly isn't it?

I can't figure out the game plan because there is so much contradiction in the company's actions. Are they just running classes to keep up appearances?

I dont know. All seems like a funny way to run an airline. It seems like we are running in two different directions.

 

[701EV]

Rumor has it that Delta just gave 1600 hours of flying to ExpressJet because Endeavor can't cover the flying. ExpressJet is buying back vacations to cover the flying.

 

[big shacks]

******************** contract, no bonus, awful bases, and a diarrhea ssp deal with DL....Yeah that's why 3 showed up. Those 3 need medical attention!

 

[jynxyjericho]

Rumor has it that Delta just gave 1600 hours of flying to ExpressJet because Endover can't cover the flying. ExpressJet is buying back vacations to cover the flying.

From what we are told, that is correct.

 

[suupah]

Failed experiment delta. You went too far suckers

 

[jynxyjericho]

Failed experiment delta. You went too far suckers

That is my impression, so do they dump us now? Can't sell us... cant staff without dumping more money into us, but you lose competitive advantage against the other regions, and if you do, you can't whipsaw.

Seems like lose-lose for Delta's managment and their superiority complex. That's too simple though, can't figure out what pieces I'm missing.

 

[suupah]

That is my impression, so do they dump us now? Can't sell us... cant staff without dumping more money into us, but you lose competitive advantage against the other regions, and if you do, you can't whipsaw.

Seems like lose-lose for Delta's managment and their superiority complex. That's too simple though, can't figure out what pieces I'm missing.

G-d forbid they dip into their 8 billion dollar profit to pay a live able wage for the regional FO. Every time I see RA talk about values I want to puke

 

[jynxyjericho]

G-d forbid they dip into their 8 billion dollar profit to pay a live able wage for the regional FO. Every time I see RA talk about values I want to puke

They don't care about values. When you do something horribly, like customer service, just claim you've always done it great and ignore your past. It's Orwellian double-think. You just have to make sure you fix the problem, and move forward. Delta has done that, their customer service has improved.

That's sales man, you run a company and all the employees hard to make a profit- including stabbing them in the chest- and fix problems that cost you money. If the problem doesn't cost you, don't worry.

It's weird for us employees, but until pilots being treated like crap and being paid crap costs them more money than doing the same thing year after year, nothing will change. Even after it does there still won't be a pension .

 

[Freebrd]

That is my impression, so do they dump us now? Can't sell us... QUOTE]

Hey maybe JA will buy ya off DAL's hand. He bought Xjt didn't he?

 

[A-10_JetMech]

They don't care about values. When you do something horribly, like customer service, just claim you've always done it great and ignore your past. It's Orwellian double-think. You just have to make sure you fix the problem, and move forward. Delta has done that, their customer service has improved.

That's sales man, you run a company and all the employees hard to make a profit- including stabbing them in the chest- and fix problems that cost you money. If the problem doesn't cost you, don't worry.

It's weird for us employees, but until pilots being treated like crap and being paid crap costs them more money than doing the same thing year after year, nothing will change. Even after it does there still won't be a pension .

Yup. No back stabbing going on here. They will walk up and stab you in the chest (with a smile of course).

 

[jynxyjericho]

Yup. No back stabbing going on here. They will walk up and stab you in the chest (with a smile of course).

"Thanks for all you do!"

Our high management has programmed everyone underneath them to end every communication with the above, for those wondering what we are going on about.

 

[SoberIrishman]

"Thanks for all you do!"

Our high management has programmed everyone underneath them to end every communication with the above, for those wondering what we are going on about.

Please translate.

 

[1.3XVso]

.

please translate.

85% 85% 85%

 

[jynxyjericho]

Please translate.

Your the sober one.

 

[SoberIrishman]

Your the sober one.

And it seems "you're" the one who cannot spell either!

 

[big shacks]

The shortage at Endeavor is not completely tied to the yes vote. Had our contract be in par with other regionals.... the attrition would still be the same in my opinion. Most are ready to move on, and Comair's downfall made the decision easier.

 

[SoberIrishman]

Delta has forced your hand and provided your best impetus to move on. Hopefully the pilots of Endeavor will continue to find a better place to go, and we can be done with this pariah of the regional industry when they "Comair" it. It was quite disgusting the hand you were dealt by Delta, however we cannot overlook how you took the bait, and as a result dealt the rest of us a terrible blow in maintaining an acceptable leverage at the table for negotiations. It is, and will continue to be hard to forget how you sold us down the river.

Everyone, XJT, Eagle, RAH, AirWilly, etc must from this point forward, stand up to the mainline carriers and declare that enough is enough. We will not fly for food stamp levels of remuneration as a starting point in a career as airline pilots. They (Mainline partners) have to invest some of the vast profits gained from the regional employees hard work and dedication to safely delivering THEIR customers to their connections in the thousands! Small communities throughout this great nation depend on us to provide reliable, safe and dependable air service, and generally we all do a damn good job with that considering the complexity of our operations.

I also don't buy into the idea of 50 seaters being unprofitable. A 50 seater may be "inefficient" these days due to oil prices, but any airplane can be profitable if you set the fares properly! For heavens sake, if you need the convenience of a flight out of podunk city USA, should you not be paying a bit more? Sometimes I think these revenue managers are missing the target completely. They would be better doing a case study of Burger King, and maybe learn something.

We in the regional sector have a vital and important role in air travel, and many highly dedicated and experienced employees to do the job. Mainlines must stop beating the regionals to death, and step up to the plate. We deserve better, period.

Anyone with an ounce of fiscal sense can see that a six figure investment for training to begin at the entry level in this job is just crazy. Unless Mom and Pop are going to pony up.....why burden yourself? Pilot shortage? Its coming fast, and I hope it provides a big wakeup call to the likes of Smisek and RA. You guys can address the regional problem now, or face the trickle down effect later yourselves. Oh, and in other news, I'm sure your DL NYC employees are really grateful for their $1.10 raise....BFD!

WHAT A JOKE.

I expect the all knowing Gen to spout his worthless wisdom in a few seconds....as soon as he finishes the next approach on FlightSim of course! But of course, nobody can debate an issue except him.

 

[jynxyjericho]

And it seems "you're" the one who cannot spell either!

This is a fragment, consider revising. See: coordinating conjunction.

Seriously though, I apologize for my grammar. I have brought great dishonor to my family name. Ohh, the Jerichos used to be "such doge", now it's all slipping away (slipped a meme in there for you toots).

 

[jynxyjericho]

Delta has forced your hand and provided your best impetus to move on. Hopefully the pilots of Endeavor will continue to find a better place to go, and we can be done with this pariah of the regional industry when they "Comair" it. It was quite disgusting the hand you were dealt by Delta, however we cannot overlook how you took the bait, and as a result dealt the rest of us a terrible blow in maintaining an acceptable leverage at the table for negotiations. It is, and will continue to be hard to forget how you sold us down the river.

Everyone, XJT, Eagle, RAH, AirWilly, etc must from this point forward, stand up to the mainline carriers and declare that enough is enough. We will not fly for food stamp levels of remuneration as a starting point in a career as airline pilots. They (Mainline partners) have to invest some of the vast profits gained from the regional employees hard work and dedication to safely delivering THEIR customers to their connections in the thousands! Small communities throughout this great nation depend on us to provide reliable, safe and dependable air service, and generally we all do a damn good job with that considering the complexity of our operations.

I also don't buy into the idea of 50 seaters being unprofitable. A 50 seater may be "inefficient" these days due to oil prices, but any airplane can be profitable if you set the fares properly! For heavens sake, if you need the convenience of a flight out of podunk city USA, should you not be paying a bit more? Sometimes I think these revenue managers are missing the target completely. They would be better doing a case study of Burger King, and maybe learn something.

We in the regional sector have a vital and important role in air travel, and many highly dedicated and experienced employees to do the job. Mainlines must stop beating the regionals to death, and step up to the plate. We deserve better, period.

Anyone with an ounce of fiscal sense can see that a six figure investment for training to begin at the entry level in this job is just crazy. Unless Mom and Pop are going to pony up.....why burden yourself? Pilot shortage? Its coming fast, and I hope it provides a big wakeup call to the likes of Smisek and RA. You guys can address the regional problem now, or face the trickle down effect later yourselves. Oh, and in other news, I'm sure your DL NYC employees are really grateful for their $1.10 raise....BFD!

WHAT A JOKE.

I expect the all knowing Gen to spout his worthless wisdom in a few seconds....as soon as he finishes the next approach on FlightSim of course! But of course, nobody can debate an issue except him.

I hope you give the mainline guys the same shots for their BK concessions.

 

[SoberIrishman]

You're welcome "bro"
Oh my gosh, I slipped in an "Americanism"

 

[big shacks]

Oh I agree. Endeavour pilots sold out many other regionals, but most were actually in belief that the airline was on the way out!! Trust me, many Mesaba 00-04 hires are having a really hard time with this. Crap contract, ridiculous seniority #, multiple bankruptcies including base closures. Not looking for any sympathy, but some have been in the game for 10 plus years and we're trying to buy time.....that's about it. Still disappointed with all of us, but the bankruptcy did not make this situation any easier, and ALPA can suck it!

 

[SoberIrishman]

I hope you give the mainline guys the same shots for their BK concessions.

I believe we did that when we welcomed furloughed guys with open arms. We count on support also and it is very much appreciated. Its people like GL who think they are god's gift to aviation we have issue with. Pilots, mainline or otherwise are not the issue here, rather the untenable treatment by management at the flag carrier level of the regional companies in forcing cuts that result in drastic implications for fellow pilots and their families at the bottom. A bit like the food pyramid in nature I guess.

 

[SoberIrishman]

I would see a job at big-D as a great thing personally. I wish I was there, however following an invite more than a decade ago, some really strange shenanigans came to be. With the letter from DL came instructions to send my degree (not a copy) to a law office in Miami for validation. Perhaps a British BSc is not equivalent to a US college. Who knows? I was then contacted to send a photocopy of my passport, and front and back of a credit card (for a validation fee) to Miami for processing. Weird or not?
Guess what happens next. Mustafa and his sally rags hit us with 4 airplanes that September, and it all falls apart for the next decade.
That was the end of it. Now, many of my colleagues are in the same boat, established at a regional, earning $110k plus per year happy (or not).
General, please help me.

 

[jynxyjericho]

I believe we did that when we welcomed furloughed guys with open arms.

The term shots referenced shots across the bow, or shots fired.

We count on support also and it is very much appreciated. Its people like GL who think they are god's gift to aviation we have issue with. Pilots, mainline or otherwise are not the issue here, rather the untenable treatment by management at the flag carrier level of the regional companies in forcing cuts that result in drastic implications for fellow pilots and their families at the bottom. A bit like the food pyramid in nature I guess.

Well if pilots aren't the issue, your words, you certainly should listen to yourself and leave the bashing for management. I didn't ask to be bought by a broke airline throwing a "hail mary" and I certainly didn't want a second concessionary contract, but I wasn't consulted. Republic and Gojets can take heart though, Endeavor's contract is still better, and theirs isn't concessionary. So that's at least two airlines who should make out better next time around.

I don't know if you're just having a bad day or what, but your being a ******************************, and I'm embarrassed for you. Just be a human being, you'll thank yourself later.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Oh I agree. Endeavour pilots sold out many other regionals, but most were actually in belief that the airline was on the way out!! Trust me, many Mesaba 00-04 hires are having a really hard time with this. Crap contract, ridiculous seniority #, multiple bankruptcies including base closures. Not looking for any sympathy, but some have been in the game for 10 plus years and we're trying to buy time.....that's about it. Still disappointed with all of us, but the bankruptcy did not make this situation any easier, and ALPA can suck it!

It was a BK and we were all right to believe facts. You may want to Monday quarterback a little but be realistic, no one had a crystalball. You didn't cross a picket line. We didn't become the new Delta flag regional, XJT wasnt shut down as a result. We did exactly as advertised, live to fight another day.

I'm sorry the industry is contracting, no one wants that, but you can't wish reality away. If the industry contracts and mainline holds on to scope, we've all got a shot to move on. BK sucks, but it's a part of life. Feeling guilty about it is no way to live.

 

[SoberIrishman]

I think you misunderstand. Management is who I direct my disdain at. All pilots deserve fair pay for what is a very responsible job. Unfortunately, some are prepared to accept less.