Embraer 190 comparable pay

[furloughed dude]

I left Jetblue, mainly from this issue. After all the bitching, after all the pocket sessions, David, Dave, and little Dave (Bushy) said tough luck. In order for us to make money, we need to pay trash wages to our people. How 'bout them values boys?

And what really got me is that people like some of you guys bought it. Amazing! Lets work for half wages so Jetblue can make money. Why not work for free? We don't care about a retirement, we got those stock options! Worth alot now for the numbers 500 and higher, huh?

Some of you wonder why you get denied jumpseats and the like.... I know it isn't supposed to be a political tool, but it was a slap in the face to the industry. I know I caught slack as a commuter and normally just paid nonrev charges to my furloughed carrier to not have to deal with it...
..
Don't get me wrong, there are some great guys there. But there are quite a few morons that seem to be just happy to have a job and would gladly work for less...

 

[TNPILOT]

Whatever MR. ERJ.

Nice try. Beats paying for SIC 1900 time big boy! Either you're a moron or a flame baiter. Probably the latter or both.

 

[C77MD80]

Patience is a virtue that not many pilots own up to. With all those folks aiming the "you're dragging the industry down" sydrome at us, you might want to ask how much a straight pay (no overtime 70+) captain at UAL is making flying the A-320; I believe UAL is the one dragging the industry down, so please, direct your quote to them instead! If we wait this out long enough, our pay will look pretty good after management at NWA and DAL get done with their "reorganization". Or better yet, how much do the guys and gals flying the 170s for Shuttle America get for their pay??? Or NEWCO??? in their 70-110 seat jets. Therein lies the fact as to why JBLU probably will keep our rates where they're at for now and compensate accordingly with profit sharing in the future... Something that most legacy carriers do not participate in.

Hey Blue, hope that when we wait even longer after the dust settles at NWA, DL, Shuttle America and NEWCO that DN doesn't "adjust" your pay accordingly so that you can in fact maintain a profit.

 

[Mugs]

Patience is a virtue that not many pilots own up to. With all those folks aiming the "you're dragging the industry down" sydrome at us, you might want to ask how much a straight pay (no overtime 70+) captain at UAL is making flying the A-320; I believe UAL is the one dragging the industry down, so please, direct your quote to them instead! If we wait this out long enough, our pay will look pretty good after management at NWA and DAL get done with their "reorganization". Or better yet, how much do the guys and gals flying the 170s for Shuttle America get for their pay??? Or NEWCO??? in their 70-110 seat jets. Therein lies the fact as to why JBLU probably will keep our rates where they're at for now and compensate accordingly with profit sharing in the future... Something that most legacy carriers do not participate in.

No B-fund, weaker benefits, and no widebody flying. Just a few peaks at the big picture regarding your UAL comment. Not that our contract is something to be proud of, but there is more to it than just the hourly A320 payrate. What we both have in common is much to prove in the years ahead.

 

[FDJ2]

If we wait this out long enough, our pay will look pretty good after management at NWA and DAL get done with their "reorganization".

If you wait this out long enough you'll be getting a paycut so that you can once again work for half the wages and benefits of the legacy carriers.

 

[D'Angelo]

FYI:

For those who are not aware of comparable equipment pay for the E190 since it's a new type, here is Air Canada's E190/E175 pay in U.S. Dollars: 1st year = $32K/year, 2nd year = $36.4K/year respectively for both Capt & FO. 3rd year Capt = $97.9/hour, FO = $51.5/hour. 4th year Capt = $100/hour, FO = $54.1/hour.

These numbers are still significantly higher than Jetblue's after factoring in JB's 1.5X pay above 70 hours flown. We need to get the pay up here at Big Blue!

Chronic Jetlag

In case you didnt realize we are living in the united states my friend! Its a whole different animal in another country.

 

[G4G5]

How much do Air Canada pilots pay for their health care?
Oh that's right they don't pay for health care.

Where is B6's largest pilot base?
Cost of living in the sticks of Canada?

 

[J32driver]

How much do Air Canada pilots pay for their health care?
Oh that's right they don't pay for health care.

Where is B6's largest pilot base?
Cost of living in the sticks of Canada?

No... they just stand in line for 3 days when they want an aspirin from the Dr. And who wants to live in the sticks of Canada... its cold there!

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Hey upper, that picture is a disgrace!

 

[Green]

Patience is a virtue that not many pilots own up to. With all those folks aiming the "you're dragging the industry down" sydrome at us, you might want to ask how much a straight pay (no overtime 70+) captain at UAL is making flying the A-320; I believe UAL is the one dragging the industry down, so please, direct your quote to them instead! If we wait this out long enough, our pay will look pretty good after management at NWA and DAL get done with their "reorganization". Or better yet, how much do the guys and gals flying the 170s for Shuttle America get for their pay??? Or NEWCO??? in their 70-110 seat jets. Therein lies the fact as to why JBLU probably will keep our rates where they're at for now and compensate accordingly with profit sharing in the future... Something that most legacy carriers do not participate in.

Ual dragging the industry down??? Are you joking? Sure once they were on the verge of liquidating they had to bring their pay down to the level of everyone else. But, even after the massive paycuts they are still right in line with industry average pay and get a B plan contribution of 15%.

Now before they were on the verge of collapse they had pilots making 345/hour, the lowest paid 737-200 captain on property made over 170/hour. Those retiring were getting pensions anywhere from 100-180k/year for the rest of their lives and most had a B fund with about a million dollars in it. According to a few articles bemoaning the productivity at UAL the average pilot flew under 60 hours hard time and was paid over 80 hours. Now how in the world is that dragging the industry down.

The only reason that all this came crashing down was because UAL's cost structure was way out of whack with airines like SWA, JBLUE, AWA, Frontier, etc. I don't think you can ever accuse a pilot group of dragging the industry down when they had guys making nearly 400k/year.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Canada is not as cheap as you think. Toronto the largest crew base ranks right up there in housing prices. Plus your taxes are huge in CA. That health care ain't free and let me tell you it sucks. Try getting a surgery there. For an monopoly, AC rates are very low.

 

[Fins Up]

Hey upper, that picture is a disgrace!

Hear hear. Crust can also be seen at the following link (might have to copy and paste): http://www.americanangst.com/dingfries.html

 

[Uppercrust]

Nice try. Beats paying for SIC 1900 time big boy! Either you're a moron or a flame baiter. Probably the latter or both.

Put a sock in it son. If you're going to survive in this industry you're going to need a change of attitude!!

 

[Fins Up]

Put a sock in it son. If you're going to survive in this industry you're going to need a change of attitude!!

tool.

 

[commuterpuke]

Like all of us I wanted the uniform, to fly a cool jet as quick as possible, to feel equal to my friends, have hot chicks look at you during boarding while you flip switches and look cool, and all that other stuff

 

[Airbus Gear Boy]

Uppercrust,

What is your rate on the Beech 1900 rocketship?

That is a face only a mother could love.

 

[Fins Up]

Any please remove the "Mil" portion of your profile. It's embarrassing to the rest of us. (No offense to the Civ guys and gals.)

 

[007]

Put a sock in it son. If you're going to survive in this industry you're going to need a change of attitude!!

Well, your obviously surviving........ on daddy's dime.

 

[Uppercrust]

Well, your obviously surviving........ on daddy's dime.

I earn my money!!

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Uppercrust is a poser trying to stir the pot. Prob a dude who lost his girl to a stick.

 

[Falconjet]

Nice looking hats on those guys though. True professionals.

FJ

 

[Mr Hat]

Now before they were on the verge of collapse they had pilots making 345/hour, the lowest paid 737-200 captain on property made over 170/hour. Those retiring were getting pensions anywhere from 100-180k/year for the rest of their lives and most had a B fund with about a million dollars in it. According to a few articles bemoaning the productivity at UAL the average pilot flew under 60 hours hard time and was paid over 80 hours. Now how in the world is that dragging the industry down.

I'm not here to flame the legacys but do you really think the Legacys will ever see that again? The damage first done by Sept 11th then by skyrocketing oil prices is in my opinion is unrecoverable. You aren't likely to see anyone making $345 an hour until inflation catches up to that amount and then it will be like making $190 an hour in this economy (and that senerio is even questionable considering how well pilot pay has kept the pace with inflation).

Point being that I feel it is unfair to blame Jetblue for low pay rates when they are making as much or more to fly the A320. The E190, sure I'd love to see those rates go up but who set that precident? Not Jetblue, it was USair's Mid-Atlantic. At least Jetblue was able to keep the 190's on their list and can fix it one day when the time is right. The other thing is nobody seems to complain about Airtran who's pay is compairable to Jetblue when you do the math. Jetblue is all about the math, if you just look at their pay at face value then yes it would be bad but if you do the math you find that it is comparable to any other airline.

 

[michael707767]

At least Jetblue was able to keep the 190's on their list and can fix it one day when the time is right. .

I've said that about us here at Delta. Better to keep the 190s on the list and fix the pay later. But people responded like I was a criminal or something.

 

[Mr Hat]

I've said that about us here at Delta. Better to keep the 190s on the list and fix the pay later. But people responded like I was a criminal or something.

You are 100% correct! Accept the low pay initially to keep them on property then fix it later. You know you can't fix it now but at least you could keep the flying. Because it says Embraer on the side it's not worthy of Delta or any other legacy for that matter? It's no different than those 737-200s you got (except for the better displays and an autopilot that knows where it's going). I certainly hope the legacy's learn from the CRJ/ERJ mistake of letting jets go to the "regionals". Fight like a mutha to keep those planes, let em look at you funny.

Currently Jetblue is light years ahead of the Legacy's for the simple fact that the Embraers are being flown at Jetblue by Jetblue pilots. There can be no disputing that, I don't care what the pay is.

 

[michael707767]

Because it says Embraer on the side it's not worthy of Delta or any other legacy for that matter?

You know thats an excellent point. We need to keep the E-190s if only to establish that being manufactured by Embraer or Bombardier does not mean its not a mainline jet or mainline job.

 

[Uppercrust]

You are 100% correct! Accept the low pay initially to keep them on property then fix it later. You know you can't fix it now but at least you could keep the flying. Because it says Embraer on the side it's not worthy of Delta or any other legacy for that matter? It's no different than those 737-200s you got (except for the better displays and an autopilot that knows where it's going). I certainly hope the legacy's learn from the CRJ/ERJ mistake of letting jets go to the "regionals". Fight like a mutha to keep those planes, let em look at you funny.

Currently Jetblue is light years ahead of the Legacy's for the simple fact that the Embraers are being flown at Jetblue by Jetblue pilots. There can be no disputing that, I don't care what the pay is.

That's the problem! Ding we have a winner!

 

[Green]

I'm not here to flame the legacys but do you really think the Legacys will ever see that again? The damage first done by Sept 11th then by skyrocketing oil prices is in my opinion is unrecoverable. You aren't likely to see anyone making $345 an hour until inflation catches up to that amount and then it will be like making $190 an hour in this economy (and that senerio is even questionable considering how well pilot pay has kept the pace with inflation).

Point being that I feel it is unfair to blame Jetblue for low pay rates when they are making as much or more to fly the A320. The E190, sure I'd love to see those rates go up but who set that precident? Not Jetblue, it was USair's Mid-Atlantic. At least Jetblue was able to keep the 190's on their list and can fix it one day when the time is right. The other thing is nobody seems to complain about Airtran who's pay is compairable to Jetblue when you do the math. Jetblue is all about the math, if you just look at their pay at face value then yes it would be bad but if you do the math you find that it is comparable to any other airline.

Who knows if ual's rates will ever be back to that level. The point of my post was to show how ridiculous it was of that JBLUE pilot to claim that UAL pilots are dragging down the industry. They have done more to improve the industry than virtually any other pilot group and now that they have to suck it up and take JBLUE pay BlueBayou claims they are dragging everyone down. I found that laughable.

 

[da90drivr]

Who knows if ual's rates will ever be back to that level. The point of my post was to show how ridiculous it was of that JBLUE pilot to claim that UAL pilots are dragging down the industry. They have done more to improve the industry than virtually any other pilot group and now that they have to suck it up and take JBLUE pay BlueBayou claims they are dragging everyone down. I found that laughable.

Perhaps you should look a little deeper into history. Before JetBlue, ALPA failed to protect "high paying" pilot jobs by allowing RJ's to be flown by commuter airlines.
Jetblue chose to fly the 190s on a common seniority list but were forced to compete with the low payscales of the regionals and bankrupt airlines when setting a rate to maintain profitability.

Those who believe the state of the industry is solely caused by JB's 190 rates needs to look a little beyond their nose..

 

[Green]

Perhaps you should look a little deeper into history. Before JetBlue, ALPA failed to protect "high paying" pilot jobs by allowing RJ's to be flown by commuter airlines.
Jetblue chose to fly the 190s on a common seniority list but were forced to compete with the low payscales of the regionals and bankrupt airlines when setting a rate to maintain profitability.

Those who believe the state of the industry is solely caused by JB's 190 rates needs to look a little beyond their nose..

I never said that the state of the industry has anything to do with JB's 190 rates.

What I DID imply was that Blue Bayou was way off base to state that UAL pilots have been a drag on the industry. I'm not affiliated with Ual in any way and don't feel the need to defend them, but I just found Blue Bayou's statement to be idiotic.

By the way if you are going to blame the downfall of the industry on outsourcing rj's then point your finger at DAL.

 

[Mr Hat]

That's the problem! Ding we have a winner!

Listen here Sheldon, Prehaps you should re-read my post and try to stay 3 steps ahead of the point. I currently work for the highest paid regional out there and we worked for it, so don't be pointing your little finger at me...I'd suggest re-stowing it back in your anus for safe keeping.

It's more important to get the 170/190's on legacy property than it is to fix the pay on those aircraft. Once they are being flown by another pilot group like say, GULFSTREAM, the Legacy guys no longer have control over it. It also stops massive furloughs at the majors. In this regard, Jetblue is light years ahead of any ALPA MEC.

Who knows if ual's rates will ever be back to that level. The point of my post was to show how ridiculous it was of that JBLUE pilot to claim that UAL pilots are dragging down the industry. They have done more to improve the industry than virtually any other pilot group and now that they have to suck it up and take JBLUE pay BlueBayou claims they are dragging everyone down. I found that laughable.

Whoever is being paid the least will always be accused of dragging the industry down. United did LOADS to benefit the profession in the 90's as did Delta then unfortunatly they had to give it all back and now it doesn't really matter. The way we do things in this industry is pattern barganing so BlueBayou has a point. I would say that United is setting the bar for airline management to shoot for. Uniteds fault? No, just the way it is. You gotta do what you gotta do to survive. Hopefully the pattern will start going the other way again in the next few years.

You know thats an excellent point. We need to keep the E-190s if only to establish that being manufactured by Embraer or Bombardier does not mean its not a mainline jet or mainline job.

Right. If you work for a Legacy, don't let up on those scope clauses no matter what.