Email from Airtran MEC: Secret MOU between SWA and SWAPA

[funnyman12]

Well CM maybe if we were one pilot group, since the SLI was completed 14 months ago, there wouldnt be ALPO. Management created this partition and this is psychology 101. How could they not expect these problems?

 

[fletch717]

Phred, I've yet to meet one AT who transitioned who feels as resentful-
So either a) pilots are lying to you bc you're outwardly opinionated and its easier
B) lying to me to make it more comfortable surrounded by OSW
Or c) something happens in transition training and online that creates some changes and a new perspective

Think you're holding on too tight

All the trannies who have transitioned and who will transition in the next few months WANT to. The last 700 or so will sing you a different tune.

 

[fletch717]

I just spoke to CM about this in the MCO lounge, and this is an accurate statement......

Funny, a lot of us feel the same about SWAPA and SWA. It's all about perspective.

 

[Shado38]

General I have seen the DL pilots in the double breasted coat, you have way more than only 400 Fat pilots! Just kidding

Best comment of the day!

 

[redflyer65]

Ouch.

 

[SWA/FO]

SW bought Airtran almost 2 years ago. Anything remotely delaing with the SIA or integration should be done with all parties. To not include ALPA is disingenuous and potentially violates good faith bargaining. We at Airtran feel as if we are SW managements foe instead of family. Does a healthy family not include certain family members in decisions that affect them?

Start acting like you want to belong to "this Family". BTW - It was a 3 party agreement.. ALPA, SWAPA and Southwest. You guys believe the crap they are feeding you, nothing to see here.

 

[Phlintstone]

Phred, I've yet to meet one AT who transitioned who feels as resentful-
So either
a) pilots are lying to you bc you're outwardly opinionated and its easier
B) lying to me to make it more comfortable surrounded by OSW
Or
c) something happens in transition training and online that creates some changes and a new perspective

Think you're holding on too tight

Nah. I'm not holding on too tight at all. You are using words that I did not use to embellish your remarks. No where did I use "resentent." What I agreed to was that folks I fly with do not feel part of a SWA family and that a common perception is that we are viewed as the enemy by SWA. The last part might be a little strong but I know most folks do not feel part of the SWA family. I do not. Believe it or not, I try VERY hard to not bring it up while flying...the CAs can get really spooled up and I really am tired of hearing about it.

The ironic thing is that I was told I was THE ENEMY by the CA while riding a SWA jumpseat. The FO and I were discussing how little flying was available at AT and that so many of us were on reserve, doing nothing and getting paid. He jumped in, saying that is the way it should be and until you have a SWA, you are the enemy. The FO later apologized for the CA. I am sure he is one of your 10%ers.

Phred

 

[tankerhead]

All the trannies who have transitioned and who will transition in the next few months WANT to. The last 700 or so will sing you a different tune.

BS...plenty of junior folks will be trapped in the hull of the sinking ship.

 

[humveedriver]

BS...plenty of junior folks will be trapped in the hull of the sinking ship.

Should be fun. The most senior holdouts with the reverse order junior stapled FOs.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah phred, I apologize for him as well- we got our militants for sure-
And everyone on this board knows I HAD my opinion- still do, I just don't care about it anymore.
My dominant opinion is that I absolutely want to do everything I can to dispel grudges, understand that your group has dealt with a whole lot of uncertainty and craziness in the last 5 years- and sincerely welcome you into the family- most i fly with have exactly this mentality- realizing that for all the term is thrown around, what makes us happier than most pilots is the culture- it'll take time and will to heal this up and it is never fun to be hanging on to the shrinking operation, but when you come over and if I see you before- the drinks are on me and I hope you join in party.

 

[maxblast72]

DL is approx 400 pilots fat right now according to sources in the CPO. The 16 717s and 13 MD90s coming this year will eat those up. Throw 36 more 717s for each of the next two years, plus eventual retirements, and there should be hiring in 2014. And if you get in during 2014, you would be in a great place before the HUGE retirement numbers coming in 4-5 years, some of which have 700-800 pilots retiring each year. That is unbelievable upward movement. Are you going to apply Max?



Bye Bye---General Lee

General, I have ran my own numbers, but maybe you can help me. Here are the age 65 retirement numbers I found online for the next 5 years:

Delta: 857 retirements (or 7.2% of the group)
Southwest: 757 retirements (or 9.6% of the group)

Using the following assumptions for total compensation calculations for me as a SWA FO (including 401K match and profit sharing but excluding per diem), here are the numbers I come up with:

Pay rate: $130-135/TFP
Yearly Credit Accumulation: 1200-1300 TFP
Days worked per month: 13-14 days
Profit Sharing: 5%

My total compensation as a SWA FO over the next 6-8 years: $175-200K

General, if I went to Delta in 2014, how much would I lose in my first 3 years? How many days off would I give up my first 3 years? Also, just curious how long it would take me to get up to $200K per year in total compensation (while working 13-14 days a month).

Right now, I just don't see me leaving. Especially when considering the $15 billion (and growing) underfunded pension and medical benefit obligation Delta lists in their 10K every year.

 

[SWA717]

Don't worry about the under funded pension fund. They will just shed it on their next trip to bankruptcy..

 

[The Victors]

All the trannies who have transitioned and who will transition in the next few months WANT to. The last 700 or so will sing you a different tune.

Maybe you should have considered transitioning sooner. The ex-trannies in my base are getting any trips they want and cleaning up Big Time!

 

[fletch717]

Maybe you should have considered transitioning sooner. The ex-trannies in my base are getting any trips they want and cleaning up Big Time![/

I do fine where I'm at. It's going to be a pay cut for me to come over. Pay rate to pay rate. I'm not interested in premium trips, working the system and whoring my self out.

 

[maxblast72]

Fletch717, you may be doing fine where you are at but don't forget where you are at won't be around in 22-28 months. Time to move on. Your total compensation per day of work going forward will be greater than it was on 9/26/2010. The chances of needing to update your resume was dramatically reduced on 9/27/2010 as well.

 

[fletch717]

Fletch717, you may be doing fine where you are at but don't forget where you are at won't be around in 22-28 months. Time to move on. Your total compensation per day of work going forward will be greater than it was on 9/26/2010. The chances of needing to update your resume was dramatically reduced on 9/27/2010 as well.

Classic, "you will make more per day" never mind that at the end of the year your W2 will be less. Linden was much dummer than I could ever have imagined.

 

[scoreboardII]

Max, fletch is the type that plays the system to get max time off. Not a bad thing, just different from the greed of the normal SwA pilot, fly minimum but maximize your pay. And I did say greed, it is not a four letter word.

 

[Tripower455]

Classic, "you will make more per day" never mind that at the end of the year your W2 will be less. Linden was much dummer than I could ever have imagined.

I am hesitant to even ask, but have you even run actual numbers? Every former AT Capt I've spoken to over here has told me that they are making more money as a SW FO than they ever made over there as a Capt.

And they weren't even close to gaming the system. They were flying their lines with maybe a little ELITT thrown in......

Oh, and if you make more per day, you can work less days for the same pay, or the same days for more pay. How does that add up to less on the W2?

 

[dicko]

we manage to get 'er on the ground ok.

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeealy ?

 

[dicko]

Maybe you should have considered transitioning sooner. The ex-trannies in my base are getting any trips they want and cleaning up Big Time!

True.

Many of them were pretty senior Captains. I talked to one of them at the gym on an overnight. He and the other AirTran guys are enjoying the pick of the trips. We were laughing our arses off at how angry the Cartels and junior SWA FOs were becoming.

 

[Ty Webb]

I do fine where I'm at. It's going to be a pay cut for me to come over. Pay rate to pay rate. I'm not interested in premium trips, working the system and whoring my self out.

Fletch, don't think of it as "whoring". Think of yourself as a "Sex Industry Worker".

 

[Tripower455]

True.

Many of them were pretty senior Captains. I talked to one of them at the gym on an overnight. He and the other AirTran guys are enjoying the pick of the trips. We were laughing our arses off at how angry the Cartels and junior SWA FOs were becoming.

So, they're enjoying their "pay cut"?

 

[redflyer65]

True.

Many of them were pretty senior Captains. I talked to one of them at the gym on an overnight. He and the other AirTran guys are enjoying the pick of the trips. We were laughing our arses off at how angry the Cartels and junior SWA FOs were becoming.

Cartels? I could see that.

Junior FO's? How could that possibly effect them? They aren't going to get any premium/charter work anyway. Not even close to reality.

 

[waveflyer]

You guys are STILL talking about this....

Wonder when the 10 of you will agree?

 

[canyonblue]

I do fine where I'm at. It's going to be a pay cut for me to come over. Pay rate to pay rate. I'm not interested in premium trips, working the system and whoring my self out.

So you are happy? Then what's the problem?

 

[Flyer1015]

One pilot group back stabbing another pilot group? Say it ain't so.

 

[redflyer65]

Actually, we are all just waiting around for the next VX quarterly results. We have to have something to keep us occupied.

 

[Flyer1015]

Actually, we are all just waiting around for the next VX quarterly results. We have to have something to keep us occupied.

What will you do at that point? Look in the mirror and pat yourself on the back, celebrating that buying your 737 type paid off and that you were one of the few lucky ones?

 

[SWA/FO]

What will you do at that point? Look in the mirror and pat yourself on the back, celebrating that buying your 737 type paid off and that you were one of the few lucky ones?

it did in a big way. that investment, once offered the job was the best money ever spent. I make that money back 2 1/2 times every month. sorry you didn't make the cut. go fly your DC-3 at 9,000 feet.

 

[Flyer1015]

it did in a big way. that investment, once offered the job was the best money ever spent. I make that money back 2 1/2 times every month. sorry you didn't make the cut. go fly your DC-3 at 9,000 feet.

I'm surprised you guys don't get nose heavy with all that arrogant attitude that is so prevalent in all these SWA threads. Why is it all of you vocal ones are always busting out your W2 numbers, trip values, days off? Congrats to you, but I honestly really don't care. Just don't bend over those Airtran guys too hard.