Effective date for age 65

[Tejas-Jet]

Thanks for the treadmill suggestion. I'm sure that's the cure all. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with flying a widebody to the other side of the planet?!

Is that really the cause? Where's the proof? If flying a widebody to the other side of the planet is the cause...then don't bid the widebody flying to the other side of the planet.

Anybody got those autopsy reports yet !?!?!?

Is it just me...or does it seem like some guys fly scared?

 

[Double Shot]

Is that really the cause? Where's the proof? If flying a widebody to the other side of the planet is the cause...then don't bid the widebody flying to the other side of the planet.

Anybody got those autopsy reports yet !?!?!?

Is it just me...or does it seem like some guys fly scared?

Tejas it is just you

 

[tailhookah]

I did post a study Andy... RTFpost... a study on longevity after retirement vs. the other non-flying part of the white male population. Yet you forget and purposely avoid that part of my retort. You wanted a link and the facts and I gave them to you. Yet you still kick and scream and whine like my 4 yr. old and spout out useless blurbs and factless information. I again state... either post some facts or go home.....

tail


ps-the study that I provide a factual link to was and is sanctioned by the FAA... some of you guys who hide on this board know it all don't ya... why don't you start your own airline.... you seem so smart and righteous and bash simple facts as false... maybe you are the second coming of Einstein and the world would benefit from your leadership....... NOT.

 

[ERJFO]

Guess we'd better lower the retirement age to 45. TC

That's the best idea I've heard since this whole age 65 thing started!

 

[Andy]

Andy, you sound like a guy who just wants other people to think he's smart. I don't like age 65 either but you and your lack of fact based theory is just annoying.

I've posted all of this before, but I'll do it one more time just for you.

http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/age60/media/age60_2.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/age60/media/age60_3.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/age60/media/age60_4.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/age60/media/age60_1.pdf

There are quite a few other studies out there with the same conclusions, but many are not recent. If you pull up some of my old posts, you'll find that I've posted a multitude of links to studies.

FWIW, I've spent a lot of hours reading various studies and opinions on this matter. I could care less whether or not you think I'm smart; it's totally irrelevent to the subject. If you truly want to see facts that I've posted in the past, you will do your homework and read a bunch of my previous posts.

 

[Andy]

I did post a study Andy... RTFpost... a study on longevity after retirement vs. the other non-flying part of the white male population. Yet you forget and purposely avoid that part of my retort.

No, I merely stated that I failed to see any relevence to the topic of this thread.

In the newspaper article, you had cited crystallized intelligence; I had stated that it is likely less important than fluid intelligence for a pilot. Here's a good article discussing the topic: http://www.healthandage.com/html/min/afar/content/other6_1.htm

And since you like to read studies, here's one that discusses cognitive abilities as we age specifically related to pilot communications: http://www.humanfactors.uiuc.edu/Reports&PapersPDFs/JournalPubs/mormenridstitelbry03.pdf

 

[Andy]

Now that we've been through another rehash of the age 60 rule, let me state that I think that chronological age is a poor choice for mandatory retirement of pilots. However, simply replacing one arbitrary age for an older arbitrary age will have a negative impact on safety.
As we age, our physical and cognitive abilities decline. I challenge anyone to find a study showing physical and cognitive improvements in the general population past the age of 35.
Some people age MUCH better than others. We need to keep that in mind when we choose an arbitrary number for retirement age. Should the mandatory retirement age be based on the healthiest, average, or least healthy members of the profession? That gets back to the point of the mandatory retirement age - for safety. For safety, it is necessary to aim the mandatory retirement age toward the least healthy members of the profession.

A much better way to determine mandatory retirement for pilots would be to establish physical and cognitive minimums for all pilots. This is not a small task. Dr. Jon L. Jordan, the former Federal Air Surgeon has stated approximately the same in testimony before Congress. He found a mandatory age to be a poor measurement, but stated that there was no better measurement currently available.
I think that Tejas-jet's suggestion of more treadmill time is very valid and should be incorporated into pilot testing.

 

[Flopgut]

Is that really the cause? Where's the proof? If flying a widebody to the other side of the planet is the cause...then don't bid the widebody flying to the other side of the planet.

Anybody got those autopsy reports yet !?!?!?

Is it just me...or does it seem like some guys fly scared?

Scared? Yeah, it's you all right:

Scared to retire! Scared to go get another job! Scared to partake of, and pass on, this profession the same way it was for you. Thousands of pilots have gone before you, in all sorts of financial circumstances, and either worked or retired. But you're too scared.

I also sense you are scared your move from the legacy to SWA was a mistake? Of course it hasn't been, but it has to be over the top for you, doesn't it? They will never be broke enough, and you will never be flush enough to really satisfy you.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Tejas it is just you

OK...I only ask because some guys mention schedules, stress, back side of the clock flying, etc., as being problematic.

If it's really that bad.....they should go do something else...substitute teaching, maybe?

 

[Flopgut]

A long study was just completed that found airline pilots actually live longer than the rest of society after retirement... as far as being unfair I can't believe I'm hearing this... It's unfair or age discrimination not to change it or it's unfair to go ahead and change it. You new generation and ALPA stooges are beautiful sometimes... You all want your cake and eat it too!

It's a good rule... sure I would love double the wages and a 60hr guarantee but that's not life. I would like the option to work to 65, although I plan on retiring much sooner. If I am healthy why should I be told I can't work? 65 is working all over the world. Right now as I write this there are multiple 60+ pilots flying all over the USA. Whether it's a foreign airline pilot or a corporate guy or fractional guy or private pilot. But the amazing thing about it is that I'm not reading about airplanes falling out of the sky! But ALPA and you generation me type's would have us believing otherwise. Stop crying about it, it's coming. And if you think Alpa can stop it, then keep spending that 1.95% and continue to hit that hookah pipe.

Tailhookah

You've got the option to work to 65! Go get a job at a fractional or a foreign carrier! You sound like a nut--You are simultaneously, too good as an aged pilot to be slated to retire at a prescribed age, yet not good enough (or too scared) to go get a job at a fractional or overseas?! I'm a greedy "generation me" type, but you're the one bawling about what someone else is getting and unwilling to accept what others enjoyed before you.

It's important to continue to resist this because guys like you are out there. 65 won't be enough. I mean, maybe you will retire at 60 (or earlier); lots will retire regardless of the age. They are the ones who made a plan, had a plan B, stuck to it and took care of themselves. They will be gone, so who's left? The cronically broke, ever needy, greed wracked bozos that are never going to be anything but a liability! Those will be this profession's remaining, most senior pilots. Does anyone doubt these pilots will want more? That this undisciplined, unearned windfall isn't going to lead to enormous problems down the road with this same group of pilots? We don't get to pick who stays. There are far too many pilots who could earn 100K per month and still be broke.

 

[Flopgut]

OK...I only ask because some guys mention schedules, stress, back side of the clock flying, etc., as being problematic.

If it's really that bad.....they should go do something else...substitute teaching, maybe?

Do something else? I don't know...If I was really going to throw in the towel and go out to pasture I think I'd apply to SWA. Substitute teaching sounds too hard.

I guess that's what you did!

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Scared? Yeah, it's you all right:

Scared to retire! Scared to go get another job! Scared to partake of, and pass on, this profession the same way it was for you. Thousands of pilots have gone before you, in all sorts of financial circumstances, and either worked or retired. But you're too scared.

I also sense you are scared your move from the legacy to SWA was a mistake? Of course it hasn't been, but it has to be over the top for you, doesn't it? They will never be broke enough, and you will never be flush enough to really satisfy you.

A-ha...had some time to re-think your original post I see.

No, my question was on the fact that in many posts, one sees guys complain about schedules, back side of the clock flying, stress, etc. , you wonder why one would stay with this job if it really is that bad.

Flop, you are really reading too much into some of my posts. I have never given the indication that my move to SWA was a mistake. I am even more happy to be here at SWA than I was on the first day I got here. This was justified even more looking at the furloughs/bankruptcies/benefit-paycuts, of the past 6 years. Really glad I wasn't part of that, and feel bad for those who were.

You really have no idea of my financial condition, but let me just say that I am alot better off here than I would've been had I stayed at the legacy carrier I was formerly employed at.

Scared to retire? Nahhhh...I've had a great career so far, and I can only see it getting better in the future. You know, the old, "Future's so bright, I gotta wear shades". It is so much fun here...thats why I want it to last longer.

Do you not have fun at "your house"?

 

[Double Shot]

Tejas,

8 to 5 says Flop is most likely not happy with his job. Although I agree with him on age 60.

Personally this issue is nothing but greed from both sides of the fence. Why stop at 65. Why not fly till we die. There has to be a place to cut it off. I say keep it status quo. Keeps every one moving with the same expectations as before and no one gets a windfall at someone else's expence.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Tejas,

8 to 5 says Flop is most likely not happy with his job. Although I agree with him on age 60.

Personally this issue is nothing but greed from both sides of the fence. Why stop at 65. Why not fly till we die. There has to be a place to cut it off. I say keep it status quo. Keeps every one moving with the same expectations as before and no one gets a windfall at someone else's expence.

I can live with this either way. Kinda like wanting the Dallas Cowboys to win the Super Bowl ( or at least get in it). Nothing bad happens ( or has happened)to me if they don't.

I would like to see the age change to age 65...but if it doesn't, I'll still be OK at age 60. In fact, if it does go to age 65...I plan to to go into semi-retirement at age 60 and put my trips in "Give Away" and just fly what I wanna fly.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Do something else? I don't know...If I was really going to throw in the towel and go out to pasture I think I'd apply to SWA. Substitute teaching sounds too hard.

I guess that's what you did!

Well...it worked for me. If you did apply here, from what I've seen on these boards, you may not make it through the interview.

But, thats OK....SWA isn't for everybody...and I would like for SWA to stay that way.