Eagle? Stay away newbies!

[7574EVER]

So....in laymans terms, what exactly does all this mean and why is Eagle "going down"? Is the door closing on hiring? Are furloughs imminent? Is AA going to try to break away from Eagle?

I'm interested to hear more than just "eagle sucks stay away".

 

[Flyby1206]

So....in laymans terms, what exactly does all this mean and why is Eagle "going down"? Is the door closing on hiring? Are furloughs imminent? Is AA going to try to break away from Eagle?

I'm interested to hear more than just "eagle sucks stay away".

About 2 years ago Eagle pilot list was about 3100 pilots, its down to 2600 now. People aren't willing to come to a regional and sit as an FO for 8yrs+ making $35k/yr before upgrading. The main reason people continued to come to Eagle was the slight small chance of a flowthrough agreement working out and making it to AA someday. This pipe dream has been squashed recently by the AMR mgmt even though the AE and AA pilot groups have been able to create a proposal both sides were happy with.

There will not be any furloughs at Eagle, we wont break away from AA. Eagle is so stable that absolutely nothing will ever happen. If you want to advance to a major/legacy/cargo carrier then this is not the place to come to do that. If you want to make more than $40k/yr in the next 8 years then this isnt the place to come either.

The lack of newhires here has caused the company to cancel upgrade opportunities to Saab CAs because they cant afford to remove FOs from the line to make them CAs. This creates a negative downward spiral in terms of upgrades, and will probably result in parking aircraft in 2008. In my opinion, the upgrades will remain at 7-8years and the company will continue to shrink in terms of pilots.

 

[Flybet3]

The fact of the matter is this!.... Yeah, upgrades are slow, and we cannot get anymore airplanes/flying from american due to staffing! So alot of guys are telling new hires to not come here so we can show management how short staffed we really are. But the the problem with this is that it only makes things worst.
I am sure that if we were well staffed we would've gotten those SAABs and maybe at some point the other 25 CRJ options. But it's not going to happen because people keep bailing!
Do you really think american is going to give us more flying or aircraft if we can hardly do our flying with our current staffing.
Yes yes yes, I agree management dropped the ball at some point, and we should do whatever it takes to keep them from getting those f****ing bonuses (Two engine taxi, flying low, etc) But we shoulnt punish everyone above us on the seniority list or below us just b/c all of the sudden you became inpatient!
And some of you guys are full of sh** too! You knew that things at eagle were moving slow 3 years ago, and still decided to come b/c every other place wasnt offering quicker upgrades either. But you still came over here. I guarantee you that if the airline was well staffed we would probably see those 26 SAAB upgrades come back and maybe more.

 

[HomerJ]

As a former AE pilot, I can tell you how frustrating it was that all eventual AA pilots didn't start at AE. Hire a pilot to the right seat at AE, then left, then up to an AA right seat, etc. Now the APA and the AE MEC are all in agreement on this idea, and management doesn't want it. Not a big shock. The last thing AMR wants is one, unified pilot group. That would take away their ability to pit one employee group against the other, and that just isn't the AMR way. Good luck to all involved...

 

[FMR8251]

So....in laymans terms, what exactly does all this mean and why is Eagle "going down"? Is the door closing on hiring? Are furloughs imminent? Is AA going to try to break away from Eagle?

I'm interested to hear more than just "eagle sucks stay away".

This process isn't over, both sides made a proposal, both sides rejected initial offers. Big suprise, that's negotiations 101. AMR, as usual, is thinking of only cash. They are hoping for favorable results in an upcoming arbitration that could result in several hundred eagle captains going over starting next year, ahead of street AA and TWA people. The unions want to give all eagle guys a chance, but only after all AA and TWA people are back. The quicker AE management can unload 20yr captains the better, for the bottom dollar.

On a side note, no official details of any proposal has been provided to the pilot group as of yet. Therefore, any crazy ranting on the subject, mine included, should be takin with a grain of salt.

 

[jetexas]

I can only hope things work our for you guys over there at AE. There's no reason to leave AE out of the picture when it comes to flying jobs at AA.
A good solid company will reward its employees, regardless of cost.
Good luck guys.

 

[GSXR600]

I can only hope things work our for you guys over there at AE. There's no reason to leave AE out of the picture when it comes to flying jobs at AA.
A good solid company will reward its employees, regardless of cost.
Good luck guys.

What they need to do is get rib off all those super, extra, senior guys (lifers) out of the seniority list, by some how giving them some kind of early retirement so line moves up a little quicker than 8 years.

 

[Flybet3]

What they need to do is get rib off all those super, extra, senior guys (lifers) out of the seniority list, by some how giving them some kind of early retirement so line moves up a little quicker than 8 years.

ummm, yeah...wow! I'm sure they didnt think of that. You must be a genious! Wow, you should be our CEO.

 

[GSXR600]

ummm, yeah...wow! I'm sure they didnt think of that. You must be a genious! Wow, you should be our CEO.

Well for sure the idea has been floating around management decades ago. What I am saying is that they need to do it now, pronto!! and not wait till they park airplanes. Well I don’t know!!
Hope it works out for you guys. You boys deserve it

 

[spacecadet1]

Rumor that eagle is looking to hire private pilots and pay for all their ratings!!! Interview will consist of pulse measurement and IQ test (below 90)........

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Pulse measurement below 90........

Rumor that eagle is looking to hire private pilots and pay for all their ratings!!! Interview will consist of pulse measurement and IQ test (below 90)........

......I guess they don't want to hire any hypertensive Spacecadets!!!

 

[jetexas]

What they need to do is get rib off all those super, extra, senior guys (lifers) out of the seniority list, by some how giving them some kind of early retirement so line moves up a little quicker than 8 years.

The irony of this is that pre-9/11, AA was hard pressed to hire many pilots from AE. During a period when they hired 100 a month, 2 or 3 were from AE. The flowthrough? I won't even go there. Now, AE's list has miraculously gotten really senior.

They don't want AE pilots at AA, yet they don't want senior guys at the top of the list. Can't have both.

 

[NWaviator]

Everyone that was talking in the crew lounge about how great the deal was. Then management squashed it. I resigned last tuesday. One of my buddies said they were anticipating 100 -200 resignations due to the letter 3 issue.
On the other hand if it would have gone through then Eagle would have been the place to be. It still may be if you live in domicle but it you are looking at a 7-8 yr upgrade. That is not a place to be if you are ever looking for life at a major. My friend, a great captain got hired in 99 and was planning to upgrade ASAP. He kept on listening to the rumors and figured that it is just around the corner. He finally upgraded last May. I am not making that same mistake.
The stock went down almost 4 points yesterday.

 

[spacecadet1]

Breathing and a pulse. If you absolutely can't get hired anywhere else (real loser), try eagle.

 

[siucavflight]

Breathing and a pulse. If you absolutely can't get hired anywhere else (real loser), try eagle.

Ha, yeah you sure know. Usually the other way around. As desperate as we still are for pilots the company is still very selective.

 

[wacoflyr]

I've got to second SIUCAVFLIGHT, partly because of the incredible avatar, but mostly because eagle is actually quite picky. Only three of nine in my interview class on aug 1st got a job offer. I'm in the middle of training right now, and it it extremely thorough. I don't like the upgrade prospects, and I hate the "us against them" atmosphere, but the training is extremely good.

Wacoflyr

 

[GSXR600]

I've got to second SIUCAVFLIGHT, partly because of the incredible avatar, but mostly because eagle is actually quite picky. Only three of nine in my interview class on aug 1st got a job offer. I'm in the middle of training right now, and it it extremely thorough. I don't like the upgrade prospects, and I hate the "us against them" atmosphere, but the training is extremely good.

Wacoflyr

WTF????? So what is all this BS about staffing problems...Don't they follow a selection process on your resume before they call you for a interview??
What do you mean by been picky..do they fail the sim eval ( if they still have one) or somenthing??

 

[wacoflyr]

Actually, it was kind of strange. Eagle has very specific requirements for paperwork, and at least two were excused for not providing the neccesary copies. Others failed the tech interview. Four of us went to the sim, but the captain's board didn't like one candidate's background. It was a long day. If you come, bring exactly the paperwork they ask for, and know your jepps.

Wacoflyr

 

[GSXR600]

Actually, it was kind of strange. Eagle has very specific requirements for paperwork, and at least two were excused for not providing the neccesary copies. Others failed the tech interview. Four of us went to the sim, but the captain's board didn't like one candidate's background. It was a long day. If you come, bring exactly the paperwork they ask for, and know your jepps.

Wacoflyr

No thx!! I am with another gig but good luck on training I heard that Indoc is really hard which is kind of ad for any kind of training I guess they want you to know the CP # and address by heart but it doesn't matter how fly the airplane

 

[labbats]

This is nothing new. Even during the hiring binge of 2004, only 4 out of 13 of us were hired that day.

 

[siucavflight]

Yeah in my interview class last year only two out of the eight of us that started the interview made it to the end.
And no indoc was not hard, open book test at the end of the week.

 

[siucavflight]

Guess it is still being negotiated. I am sure that they will reach an agreement at some point. This just came today.

The MEC convened via teleconference yesterday to discuss the status of our Letter 3 grievance resolution discussions. The MEC was briefed on the Association’s Tuesday meeting with Peter Bowler, John Hutchinson, Cathy McCann, and Brad Wickman, at which Association representatives revisited the unions’ proposal of one month ago along with the associated financial projections. The goal of the meeting was to ensure that the company understood the tenets of the proposal and associated cost savings to the corporation. It was also an opportunity for the Association to gain insight into management’s current position in these settlement discussions.

We expect a follow up meeting early next week.

The MEC was also briefed on Thursday’s four party teleconference with Arbitrator LaRocco who currently presides over the TWA Employment Opportunity remedy and Order of Recall grievance disputes. On October 11th and 12th, the four parties will meet in California to argue the remedy phase of the TWA Employment Opportunity arbitration. A decision is expected shortly thereafter. A decision in the Order of Recall grievance could arrive at any time.

Your MEC believes that the current ALPA-APA proposal offers substantial, long-term cost savings while quickly resolving Eagle’s current recruitment problem. The MEC also believes that the current union proposal offers the best opportunity to address the broadest range of issues faced by different segments of the Eagle pilot population. Although there is a short-term cost associated with the unions’ proposal, it is outweighed by the savings generated, not to mention any side benefit such as retention, recruitment, and moral.

While technically accurate that the APA was the party that refused to entertain the companies’ counter-proposal, the company was aware that by counter-proposing outside of the framework the unions had proposed, they would likely be functioning outside of the unions’ bottom lines and therefore result in the cessation of discussions.

It is our hope that management will realize that the current settlement framework offers the best chance for success in enhancing Eagle’s cost competitiveness, meeting employee needs for career progression and stability, and creating a long-term and viable corporation. Long-term investment in a guaranteed program of this sort is a smart, financially sound, and necessary choice.

For those of you at Go-jets you may not understand the above terms like "MEC" "union proposal" "grievance" "arbitrator" "APA" "ALPA"

 

[GSXR600]

This is nothing new. Even during the hiring binge of 2004, only 4 out of 13 of us were hired that day.

Well yeahh!!!!! That was then, but now is different
that's why avarage mins for an interview now hit the rock bottom.

 

[siucavflight]

Well yeahh!!!!! That was then, but now is different
that's why avarage mins for an interview now hit the rock bottom.

The mins are low, but they still are very picky. Dropping more then 50 percent out of the interview before the first day.

 

[thebest]

How can this be happening....Eagle has alpa.....everything will be FINE! It's not like any other major carrier had a paycut or lost pension's.. they have alpa, GOSH!

 

[LewisU_Pilot]

We started with 6 in our interview and only ended with 4. One of the guys who was asked to leave had over 1200 multi time.

 

[Bruno82]

No thx!! I am with another gig but good luck on training I heard that Indoc is really hard which is kind of ad for any kind of training I guess they want you to know the CP # and address by heart but it doesn't matter how fly the airplane

Check your sources. Indoc was easy and the final test is open book.

 

[Flybet3]

Check your sources. Indoc was easy and the final test is open book.

I agree. Indoc was waaaaaay to easy. It usually is. But this is the problem on these FORUMS, everyone just talks as if they really have the facts. But 99.9% of the time, they're not even close.
You get onto eaglelounge or flightinfo, and some guys make it seem as if the sky was falling! and the good Lord has already cursed eagle...LOL. Mean while, you talk to everyone at work and NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE has a clue of what's been going on.
At eaglelounge you've got 8 or 9 douc*ebags talking about "I'm not going to pick up OT!, I'm gonna stand up to management!, that'll show'em!." Mean while the other couple thousand pilots at eagle are picking up OT like crazy and have no idea of the no OT policy that 9 idiots are coming up with.

 

[wacoflyr]

It's true, basic indoc was easy, but that was just week one of seven weeks. I'm in the middle of this now, and systems is tough! I'm a good student, and this is hard work. Eagle certainly has their issues, but don't knock their selection process, or their training.

Wacoflyr

 

[wacoflyr]

P.S. Siucavflight, that avatar of yours just makes my day.

Wacoflyr