Eagle gear up go around in SYR today

[yaya]

Yes, but did they at least scrape it along the centerline?

I dunno, but Why would you try to? Paint is flamable. I'd nudge it a bit to one side.

 

[pdub20s]

Being a EMB145 driver myself ;-) , He had to have initiated that go-around well before the airplane touched the ground. From idle thrust it takes about 8-9 secounds for the Engines to spool to max thrust in t/o-1 mode. And there is a tollerance of 75ft(lookin in the limitations) loss on go around. So they had to have known something was up before that belly hit.

 

[hawaiimei]

Yep, a go around initiated at 50' under CATII conditions easily ends up touching down on the runway if the rotation isn't initiated perfectly.

 

[Inconceivable]

From what the manual says, when the electric hyd valve pump turns off ...that... is the signal to the EICAS to mark the gear as DN/Green (as insane as that is, it just means the pump stopped).

What the F&%*% are they smoking down in that jungle? Is it because their toilets flush the wrong way? You're saying that the "down and locked" indication is in no way related to the gear being either down or locked? That's like having the cabin pressure indication based on the altimeter and all door handles being stowed, even if the door was wide open.

That's just too funny.

My sincere compliments to the crew--hope this incident did not cause any sleepless nights after the fact.

Now maybe we can discuss why no one told them to wave off on short final....THERE is a safety issue we can have impact on.

 

[samballs]

An unnamed large regional maintains company policy to NOT do a tower "fly-by" if you have three green as it could frighten the passengers. I wonder if they'll change that brilliant policy. Dumbarses.

Ahh yes! Comair has many "this makes no sense policys". While I'm on here JC LAwson is fat Ferry

 

[igneousy2]

What the F&%*% are they smoking down in that jungle? Is it because their toilets flush the wrong way? You're saying that the "down and locked" indication is in no way related to the gear being either down or locked? That's like having the cabin pressure indication based on the altimeter and all door handles being stowed, even if the door was wide open.

That's just too funny.

My sincere compliments to the crew--hope this incident did not cause any sleepless nights after the fact.

Now maybe we can discuss why no one told them to wave off on short final....THERE is a safety issue we can have impact on.

The same thing our FEDS are smoking by certifying an airplane that does effectively does not have a down and locked indication system. I thought a transport category airplane had to have two independent methods of verifying the gear is down and locked? 737's have the spare set of lights up on top of the panel. MD-80 has the periscope in the cabin above the mains, DHC-8 has the Alternate lights near the emergency gear pump, I can't remember what the EMB-145 had.

 

[hammer2]

These pilots and pax are very lucky. Pulling it back in the air was probably a reflex once he felt something other than a greaser. Like scraping metal. Ground the fleet.

 

[punkpilot48]

A. Toilets flushing the "wrong way" is an urban myth and has everything to do with design of the toilet only.

B. Does the FOQUA(sp?) data not take care of things like if the gear was selected down?

 

[pdub20s]

Now that I think about it.... If the nose door was spotted open, then they could have had a COMPLETE hydraulic failure. In the event of one the nose wheel door Droops down. e probably for got to drop the gear manually. As far as him noticing the gear not being down cuz he didn't feel the wheels touch is BS. Cuz when he brings that power to idle, that airplane comes down. remember, its a jet. Not a prop! It takes time for those engines to spool up to thrust that will take em back in the air.

 

[blott]

Hey pud(pdu)

yeah, "complete hydraulic failure" 'cause the reports all tell of the difficulty with the ailerons, no brakes, and the lack of stearing.

"power to idle, comes down", good point, since you must have been the ass that pulled the power and caused my spine to be .5mm out of alignment after my last "Freedom" DH....on final-thrust to what had to be idle, I actually had time to look at the guy next to me, say "oh ********************", and yank on the seat belt....to bad aircraft seats are designed to allow you to survive a crash, not walk away from one...

Note-you don't stall a swept wing jet during landing-fly it on....

How long does it take for the engines to "spool up", per the regs....how long...I can stay in ground effect that long-let alone slide it down the runway...

when you've got enough hours to make CA, you will know when it doesn't feel right when it counts(maybe not freedom)---like when you have three green, and you should be on the mains, but aren't, I guess you would probably just be looking out the window grinning 'cause you were in a "jet"...(probably junior man too)


B

 

[eglguy]

Now that I think about it.... If the nose door was spotted open, then they could have had a COMPLETE hydraulic failure. In the event of one the nose wheel door Droops down. e probably for got to drop the gear manually. As far as him noticing the gear not being down cuz he didn't feel the wheels touch is BS. Cuz when he brings that power to idle, that airplane comes down. remember, its a jet. Not a prop! It takes time for those engines to spool up to thrust that will take em back in the air.

Think again you are so wrong! Turn in your EMB-145 rating. Stop thinking (guessing) and you'll find out soon enough when the NTSB report comes out and the crew gets plaques on their walls.

 

[pdub20s]

Hey pud(pdu)

yeah, "complete hydraulic failure" 'cause the reports all tell of the difficulty with the ailerons, no brakes, and the lack of stearing.

"power to idle, comes down", good point, since you must have been the ass that pulled the power and caused my spine to be .5mm out of alignment after my last "Freedom" DH....on final-thrust to what had to be idle, I actually had time to look at the guy next to me, say "oh ********************", and yank on the seat belt....to bad aircraft seats are designed to allow you to survive a crash, not walk away from one...

Note-you don't stall a swept wing jet during landing-fly it on....

How long does it take for the engines to "spool up", per the regs....how long...I can stay in ground effect that long-let alone slide it down the runway...

when you've got enough hours to make CA, you will know when it doesn't feel right when it counts(maybe not freedom)---like when you have three green, and you should be on the mains, but aren't, I guess you would probably just be looking out the window grinning 'cause you were in a "jet"...(probably junior man too)


B

well blott you pole smoker..do you even fly a EMB jet???

good point, since you must have been the ass that pulled the power and caused my spine to be .5mm out of alignment after my last "Freedom" DH....on final-thrust to what had to be idle, I actually had time to look at the guy next to me, say "oh ********************", and yank on the seat belt....to bad aircraft seats are designed to allow you to survive a crash, not walk away from one...

So you land the airplane with power in huh? How many tires have you blown,or how many times you ran off the end of the runway? I was talking right before touch down. I didnt say anything about chopping the power at 50ft.

Note-you don't stall a swept wing jet during landing-fly it on....

once again kum dumpster , did i say anything about stalling it??

when you've got enough hours to make CA, you will know when it doesn't feel right when it counts(maybe not freedom)---like when you have three green, and you should be on the mains, but aren't, I guess you would probably just be looking out the window grinning 'cause you were in a "jet"...(probably junior man too)

with this statement here, im convinced that you are a full fledged ****************************** or drunk. Which is it?


And i not sayin that what i suggested is the cause, just opening up the thread for discussion of what might have gone wrong

 

[Rockitsynz]

well blott you pole smoker..do you even fly a EMB jet???

once again kum dumpster , did i say anything about stalling it??

with this statement here, im convinced that you are a full fledged ****************************** or drunk. Which is it?

Pdub,

Thank you for that erudite and well-reasoned response to those who have offered alternative hypotheses to your original supposition of "COMPLETE hydraulic failure".

Your reasoning is, no doubt, informed by your several hundred hours of flying meat missiles in a C182 and the few weeks that you have now been flying the ERJ following your initial ERJ Indoc class in May.

The aviation acumen and sedulous analysis displayed in your posts...combined with a keen wit and expansive vocabulary...are a credit to the forum.

Thanks for raising the level of discourse as a new 'member'.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

I heard that that particular airframe had a recent update to windows '95.




LGEUs never fail.:erm:

Three green with noise and a "lg/ag fail" or was it a "l/g lever disagree" No aural gpws warnings? Damn, bad day to be a pilot of an electric jet run on computers.

 

[CA1900]

Hey Rockitsynz, nice avatar.

 

[pdub20s]

Pdub,

Thank you for that erudite and well-reasoned response to those who have offered alternative hypotheses to your original supposition of "COMPLETE hydraulic failure".

Your reasoning is, no doubt, informed by your several hundred hours of flying meat missiles in a C182 and the few weeks that you have now been flying the ERJ following your initial ERJ Indoc class in May.

The aviation acumen and sedulous analysis displayed in your posts...combined with a keen wit and expansive vocabulary...are a credit to the forum.

Thanks for raising the level of discourse as a new 'member'.

Do i know you???

 

[aewanabe]

We got a official statement from EMB stating that the

LGEU failed, thus showing three green on final. With the LGEU inop, the electric hyd pump failed to release the uplocks, or to lower the gear, and with no hyd pressure the doors of course did open. From what the manual says, when the electric hyd valve pump turns off ...that... is the signal to the EICAS to mark the gear as DN/Green (as insane as that is, it just means the pump stopped).

XJT FO

Which manual are you reading? Um, review when the electric motor-driven pump runs with the engine-driven pump operative. (Hint: lowering the landing gear is not one of the criteria). There is no pump that starts/stops with gear extension and retraction!

The EMB shows gear position using proximity sensors. It's past my bedtime and the AOM isn't handy so I'm not sure how many on each leg; I believe it's four (2 each for up and down position). The prox sensors send their output to the LGEU, which votes on the signal validity for each gear leg and then sends the UP or DN message to the EICAS. What IS feasible is an LGEU failure that allowed the LGEU to send a faulty DN signal... though I don't quite understand how the gear doors would have opened in that scenario. At any rate the gear indication is NOT the result of any pump starting or stopping... there are real sensors out there! (Whose input, unfortunately, is processed by a computer before being shared with us....)

 

[aewanabe]

I heard that that particular airframe had a recent update to windows '95.




LGEUs never fail.:erm:

Three green with noise and a "lg/ag fail" or was it a "l/g lever disagree" No aural gpws warnings? Damn, bad day to be a pilot of an electric jet run on computers.

No doubt. Had a hydraulic sys one failure once with the resulting open nose gear doors. The noise in the cockpit with the doors open and gear retracted sure sounds a helluva lot like the noise with the gear extended (until you touch down of course!).

 

[Swaayze]

Allegedly the 3 green was received almost immediately upon handle repositioning. If true, then the nose doors would only have a moment to sequence open, then the extend signal would cease and the nose doors would be stuck open with the gear still up. Makes sense to me. Bad LGEU stops operation before it really gets started and indications from noise and EICAS says "all is well", until the LG/Lever Disagree message appears at least....

 

[I Hate Freight]

A. Toilets flushing the "wrong way" is an urban myth and has everything to do with design of the toilet only.

True, but hurricanes and tornadoes do spin in the opposite direction down there.