Eagle gear up go around in SYR today

[SoberIrishman]

Never having flown the jet Brasilia, however I would think there would have to be an aural GPWS initiated "GEAR" warning....anyone?

 

[Flying Illini]

Uhhhhh, it's resume time.

 

[uberbored]

nothing will happen if the aircraft is indicating three green, which according reports it was, and if you look close enough you can see the nose gear door open. SO unless you were listening for the gear to come down very closely, this could happen to anyone... lets not forget it is an embraer.

 

[flyboyzii]

yowza!!

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Not an EMB driver but...

Maybe the airplane pulled some shinanigans. The nose gear doors were open which would indicate they tried to put the gear down and some point. Handle down, rush of air, three green, everything is cool right?

EMB drivers: Anyone know a way that the system can fool itself into thinking the gear is down?

I'm not warming up the tar or plucking the feathers just yet.

 

[machaf]

nothing will happen if the aircraft is indicating three green, which according reports it was, and if you look close enough you can see the nose gear door open. SO unless you were listening for the gear to come down very closely, this could happen to anyone... lets not forget it is an embraer.

I would guess the power setting would be a lower than normal with no gear extended.

Very interesting situation.

 

[wickedpilot]

Talk about a low energy go-around.

 

[DGdaPilot]

This makes me think about how many of us have flown a little on the tired side...... Would we have been able to react like this crew? Scary to think about. Great job to the crew for the recovery.

http://forums.eaglelounge.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3549&d=1182396096

http://forums.eaglelounge.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3548&d=1182396096

 

[V-1]

These guys are either heroes or idiots for pulling this off. It'll be interesting to hear more details.

 

[I Hate Freight]

I can tell you guys this. The gear lever was dropped, EICAS indicated THREE GREEN and no aural warnings sounded.

Like a previous poster said, the nose gear doors did open, the sound changed and the crew thought all was good. Personally I think I would have noticed the lack of drag or not hearing the exact sound I'm used to but I wasn't there and I have no idea what it sounds like for just the nose doors to open. Anyway, they realized they had a problem about a second before touch down and powered up just as the belly touched the runway.

They did a great job. Why and how the system could malfunction to the point of opening the nose gear doors, not dropping a single tire and yet indicating three green is a mystery and I look forward to finding out soon.

IHF

 

[pilotsh]

If there is any aircraft to do what those guys did and not damage the airplane, the Jungle Jet is it. It has a ventral strake located right between the main gear wells that protects the fuel tanks should it be neccessary to land with one or no main gears. Here is a clear pic:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1221239/L/


The beacon was probably mangled and they put some big scratches on the strake, but otherwise from the pic, it looks like that was the only damage. The jungle jet is a tough lil bird.


What I don't understand is, is it me or do the flaps look like they are up? In a go-around that low, I don't think the flaps can retract that fast....

The reason I say that is, normally, b$tching betty will warn you that your gear is not down, which is not silencable, UNLESS the RA is inop/MELed, then it will give you a gear not down warning at something like 9xxx ft, which IS defeatable. The warning would come back again once flaps were lowered to 22 or 45, but if it wasn't, then b$tching betty would stay silent.

If the nose gear doors are open (it's the only moving gear doors on the ERJ), then most likely the pilots had selected it down, but I guess the question is did they verify down, 3 green?

 

[91100 100 set]

This whole thing is weird. If they did have three green and no warnings, I must compliment the crew for saving the day. I don't think everybody out there would have been able to do the same.

 

[MarineGrunt]

This whole thing is weird. If they did have three green and no warnings, I must compliment the crew for saving the day. I don't think everybody out there would have been able to do the same.

Exactly what I was thinking. If have a feeling that if I had the rush of air, three green and no warnings that I might have turned that into the best 20-ton bob-sled ride ever... It will be interesting to see what happened.

 

[35off]

????

I am surprised EMB drivers have not jumped all over this yet.

If you look closely the flaps look like they may be at 22deg not full 45deg which is normal. Also the nose gear doors are open. For them to be open the gear door electric solenoid would have been malfunctioning, or the pilots actuated the gear handle to the down position which sends an electrical signal from the LGU (landing gear unit) to the nose door electric solenoid. The other ways the doors would be open and the gear not down would be an electrical emergency and the nose door solenoid would loose power and default to the open position. Or if you hand no hydraulic pressure to hold the nose gear doors closed.

I am going to go with that the pilots had lowered the lever thus opening the nose gear doors. So why did the gear not come down? Possibly the LGU malfunctioned?? No hydraulic pressure. Not likely as the crew would have reported this before trying to land.

Now with flaps 22deg and the thrust levers at a low setting (like 30deg or less) the Aural Warning Unit would have stated "landing gear, landing gear". This is regardless if the RA radio altimeter was working or not. If was the unit would have yelled below 1200feet and with any flaps and no gear.

So the Aural Warning Unit had to be not working or the pilots ignoring it (possible not likely) and they had Landing Gear Unit did not signal the Landing Gear electro valve to change position or it just malfunctioned (jammed maybe).

Here is the conclusion and not so good part for the pilots. If the gear did not fall there would NO DN (down indications) in the three boxes on the EICAS. There really is no way around this. There are 2 up/ down indicators (proximity sensors) on each gear. If all of them did fail you would have dashes across the gear indictors on the EICAS. This would indicate in transit or basically that the plane did not know where the gear was. One might fail, but all, not likely.

Finally, the pilots put the gear lever down, they either ignored the aural unit or it was not working (probably not working). They then proceeded to land without verifying gear down and locked indications. This is where I would place my money for a bet. Hopefully I am wrong and the pilots are found to be at no fault.

 

[CA1900]

Now with flaps 22deg and the thrust levers at a low setting (like 30deg or less) the Aural Warning Unit would have stated "landing gear, landing gear".

If they had a 3-green indication, though, wouldn't that also prevent the aural warning from saying anything? If some malfunction gave the computer a down-and-locked indication, it shouldn't make a peep, right?

Here is the conclusion and not so good part for the pilots...

Wow, you're going to save the NTSB a ton of time and money they would have otherwise wasted actually investigating this incident.

Yeah, it could be pilot error, but that doesn't explain the nosegear door. There are a lot of other possibilities here, including chafed wires, computer malfunctions, switch malfunctions, etc. I can almost guarantee there's more to this story than we think there is.

 

[Swaayze]

Like IHF said, rumor is that they somehow had 3 green. Flaps 22 is a normal landing setting at Eagle. IMO it's pretty obvious the go-around was initiated prior to ground contact, otherwise there's really no chance it would have been successful. Perhaps we should all just wait for a report. Hopefully it wasn't crew error.

 

[Headfake14]

...one of the weirdest things I've seen so far...well, I went to this circus once in Mexico..........anyway.......very curious about the outcome.

 

[eglguy]

I saw it just as it was getting back into the air. No mains, but the nose gear doors were open. From what I could gather, their first indication that something was wrong was when the belly hit the runway. That is to say that I don't think an emergency was declared prior, because there was no equipment in place. My FO saw the sparks flying, and by the time I looked up it was about 5-10 feet off of the ground and moving very slowly (almost hanging in the air). We took off shortly after that so, I don't know what happened next. 22L down between F and C is where he got airborne.

Couldn't find your PTT Switch?

 

[B1900 Mech]

"ya, we saw the whole thing" Why didn't Jet Blue 475 warn them?

 

[vectorvictor]

If they had a 3-green indication, though, wouldn't that also prevent the aural warning from saying anything? If some malfunction gave the computer a down-and-locked indication, it shouldn't make a peep, right?


Wow, you're going to save the NTSB a ton of time and money they would have otherwise wasted actually investigating this incident.

Yeah, it could be pilot error, but that doesn't explain the nosegear door. There are a lot of other possibilities here, including chafed wires, computer malfunctions, switch malfunctions, etc. I can almost guarantee there's more to this story than we think there is.

I agree. If you put this many cycles on an airplane eventually you are going to see just about every abnormality. Every once in a while you might get a causal chain long enough to get around the safe guards that prevent things like gear up landings. Don't point the finger at the crew. Regardless of the cause there was obviosly some type of breakdown in the gear warning system. The hats get tilted to the crew for saving the aircraft and the passengers. When it comes to landing gear-up, there are those who have and those who will.