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DL/NWA Seniority List Integration Arbitration starts TODAY...article

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Not so simple. Delta’s previous mergers were not date of hire. As a result the pilots from previous carriers are not in date of hire order. If the arbitrators award date of hire how would these pilots be treated? Would they be re-ordered based on date of hire? That would move them ahead of current Delta pilots who they are now junior to.

That's why they need to sort this sh*** out NOW. Put in black and white. It is that simple, but like always people have to make it hard. Put it in black in white, everyone will be date of hire, not one will get fu***d in this deal. See? SIMPLE.
 
I am not saying it will be one way or the other but this has to do with this merger not previous mergers.


We can not ignore previous mergers at either airline. NWA own statement says

“The Northwest pilots who are entitled to perform this super-premium widebody
flying deserve to be placed among the most senior spots on the combined list.”

Note that it doesn’t say the most senior pilots on NWA list deserve to be on top of the combine list. Clearly red book green book will be a factor in this merger.
 
Not so simple. Delta’s previous mergers were not date of hire. As a result the pilots from previous carriers are not in date of hire order. If the arbitrators award date of hire how would these pilots be treated? Would they be re-ordered based on date of hire? That would move them ahead of current Delta pilots who they are now junior to.

OMG, do you actually fly airplanes?
 
That's why they need to sort this sh*** out NOW. Put in black and white. It is that simple, but like always people have to make it hard. Put it in black in white, everyone will be date of hire, not one will get fu***d in this deal. See? SIMPLE.


No I don’t see. Rearranging the current Delta list would undo previous binding arbitration awards. I am not sure the arbitrators have the authority to do this. Nor do I think they want to open that can of worms. Two things I know for sure, it is not simple and I will have absolutely no control over it.
 
No I don’t see. Rearranging the current Delta list would undo previous binding arbitration awards. I am not sure the arbitrators have the authority to do this. Nor do I think they want to open that can of worms. Two things I know for sure, it is not simple and I will have absolutely no control over it.

Agreed. Republic was made up of 3 smaller airlines (NC, SOU and HAW), one of which was also made of 3 smaller airlines (AW, BONZ, PAC = HAW).

The NWA/REP merger was straight DOH, with conditions and restrictions, which ignored previous merger methods.

Nu
 
Agreed. Republic was made up of 3 smaller airlines (NC, SOU and HAW), one of which was also made of 3 smaller airlines (AW, BONZ, PAC = HAW).

The NWA/REP merger was straight DOH, with conditions and restrictions, which ignored previous merger methods.

Nu


Might wanna capitalize, bold, and italicize the "conditions and restrictions" from that one. :)
 
Might wanna capitalize, bold, and italicize the "conditions and restrictions" from that one. :)

I personally know an ex republic pilot who is chomping at the bit to finally bid something large, and he thinks this merger will allow it, when his redbook "friends" would not. That is another thing dumped on the Delta pilots, repressed seniority waiting to explode onto their new planes.
 
The fences dropped in 2006...ex republic guys should have been able to bid to whatever they wanted since then.
 
And it can be argued that the only reason a certain airline was able to set the "dot" was another pilot group went on strike in 98 for two weeks to turn around a cycle of all airlines giving back. Said pilot group had to overcome anothers lack of resolve in 96(the economy had long turned around at this point). Leaving out these little pesky details is like the swa pilots acting like they have the highest pay now due to anything other than default.

[Oh, BTW, the C2K springboard came off of United, whos springboard came off of our 777/764 agreement--they called it the Delta dot--just to bring you up to the facts pertaining c2k[/quote]
 
The NWA/REP merger was straight DOH, with conditions and restrictions, which ignored previous merger methods.

Nu

Conditions and restrictions which effectively nulified DOH and made it almost a staple, for what 20 years?
 
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I personally know an ex republic pilot who is chomping at the bit to finally bid something large, and he thinks this merger will allow it, when his redbook "friends" would not. That is another thing dumped on the Delta pilots, repressed seniority waiting to explode onto their new planes.

As mentioned those guys can all bid what they want now. nice attempt at stirring the pot though. :cool:
 
NWA 757 paid less than Deltas. NWA a330 darn near paid less than Deltas 757s.

I get it. You don't. It matters ONLY if you think the basis for the pay disparity should reflect in the SLI. Since the formula reflects their productivity, the issue becomes neutral.

It appears our side is making an issue of the numbers of jobs that were attached to aircraft that had bigger numbers in the mutually-accepted formula.

YOU appear to believe that fluctuating rates are more important that the underlying basis for the rates.

Neogitating captital, a lot of it, was used to bring NWA up to Delta compensation, and then give NWA equity.

1. So what? Your tenure at DAL doesn't give you the first-hand experience to put that in context. Remember when you went on strike to generate leverage? No? You didn't?

2. Was it done unilaterally or with preconditions WRT the SLI? If your answer to both of those questions is "no" [Hint: It is], it has no bearing on the matter at hand.

3. Inadmissable. Deal with it...

That will be reflected in the NWA career expectations as well as Delta career expectations. It is not a dream. It is reality. Your pay sucked. Our sucked much less. That matters, a lot.

The rates won't...the numbers of pilots will. Ironically, that is the essence of your side's proposal.

The "reality" is that pay rates don't matter...either before, or after. What matters is where we are on the list, and how important the panel feels our expectations of movement are. One of those is measurable. One is not.

I guess next is Superdupercalifragilistic premium widebody flying. Or perhaps the argument that red is a more senior color than blue. Oh yeah, age, let's use that.

Grow up.

The descriptor is used to differentiate aircraft by size. Simple terms like "widebody" get blurry when a "narrowbody" B757-300 carries more than a "widebody" B767...or a "widebody" A330 is lumped as the equivalent of a smaller "widebody" such as the B767ER.

We reached a compromise on the pay rates for those aircraft within the JCBA, but we KNOW size matters when we talk numbers of pilots...because we tie our productivity to size. And productivity is the bedrock of our contract.

Oh, BTW, the C2K springboard came off of United, whos springboard came off of our 777/764 agreement--they called it the Delta dot--just to bring you up to the facts pertaining c2k

What springboard did you use for the 777/764 agreement?

It's called Pattern Bargaining. It means timing matters. It means the actions of other pilot groups matter. And really, it means that sometimes it don't matter who you are, what you are, or even how good you are. Sometimes all that matters is when you are.

Still waiting for you to provide some examples of the "recent experience" you cited here:

While that is your opinion, recent experience has shown something somewhat different.
 
I personally know an ex republic pilot who is chomping at the bit to finally bid something large, and he thinks this merger will allow it, when his redbook "friends" would not. That is another thing dumped on the Delta pilots, repressed seniority waiting to explode onto their new planes.
Hence the reason the 787 Dreamliner is known as the Green liner
 

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