DL MEC Rumor???

[General Lee]

Fins,

Sure, there was no initial sim ride for the interview, but I then had to go through the HARDEST course of my life---the 727 FE course--which was an intense hazing. Then six months later I went through 737-200 school for Delta Express. So, I had to pass two big "sim rides" or I would have been fired. (in my first year---on probation) Just because you don't have an initial sim--doesn't mean you skate by without doing one. And, too bad that 727 FE course is gone--because it really was brutal and made you feel great after it was done. ( it was a marathon--not a sprint)

As far as putting all of the DCI flying with ASA/Comair---I agree with that. We might as well get full profits while flying Delta's RJs.
And, I am also for helping our furloughs like Spanky and TK get back into the cockpit (an RJ cockpit) unitl they can come back to mainline--and then after TK---hire ASA people. I think our MEC would be in favor of doing something for our furloughs----I have talked to many MEC people and they say they are a "furlough friendly MEC." So far they have helped get them Cobra payments, fought for them getting 250 back and hopefully their back pay, and will not forget them in the end. Whenever I see Dalpa MEC memebers in the lounge, I stop and say to them, "don't forget our furloughs." I want as many people flying the line behind me as I can get. I do hope the MEC tries to get all of that flying under one umbrella---and helping our furloughs too in the process.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Yeah,

What he said!

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Oops!

What the guy before him said!

 

[FLB717]

Gentlemen,

First let me start by saying that as an ex-cmr pilot I’ve been represented by one of the foremost “Regional” ALPA units. Most I would guess are far less aggressive or strong as the pilot group at cmr, but then I freely admit my bias on the subject.

However as a member (not the voice of my union or company) of the NPA (AAI’s in house union, National Pilots Association) I would like to give a small monologue of events that transpired from ALPA National to our BOD (Board of Directors) when they asked us to become part of ALPA. When one of our leaders asked what percentage of our membership dues we would retain to run the MEC it was roughly stated at 30% or so. A stronger thinking person asked/told them that that was a very small percentage to have and continue our current level of service to our members. A person ( I believe from the accounting side and not a ALPA pilot) responded with “You pay your money and we will tell you what to think” Now that may or may not be representative of the complete conversation or the views of many or all of ALPA’s employees. But I feel that it is a direct example of the money hungry non-equal representation of ALPA in respect to Major/National and Regional carriers. So I can tell you from MY experiences and belief that I am far better represented at the NPA. And if need be I can confront my leadership one on one in a five minute drive from the terminal to the office and ask “ WTFO”. And no the vast majority of our pilots do not want ALPA, because they have been ALPA, no and that is not the minority but a majority who have been. And I would guess only 50? of 830 pilots have any Eastern ties from any of the three camps. I also think that our affiliation with CAPA (AMR, UPS, ABX, AAI and SWA) gives us a real voice in DC to balance and strengthen any ALPA policies that we agree with.

FLB717

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Wait a minute did that Spank me guy say "something for nothing" like three or four times as if to suggest that his peers were not guilty of the same thing with respect to hiring at Comair and the resignation of their seniority numbers?

 

[Tim47SIP]

Spank whatever

ASA standards higher? Stop sniffing your highlighter. But you obviously are very familiar with Delta training. How did you type that with a straight face? and you caught me ... former military pilots are exempt from sims and checkrides at Delta. SSHHH...it's a secret.


Just to let your know. Two of ASA's pilots recently (OK 6 months ago) were sent to Delta to go through your training and see what the difference was between the two carriers. The intent was (we were told) was to try and align Delta's way and our way. The reslult were 737 type ratings for the two individuals. One male and one female. Thier initial feelings were that our (ASA) training was much harder in regards to information (like drinking from a fire hose) and sim training. They did not say that Delta's training was a walk in the park either, but there was a measurable difference. Additionally, as a result, we are getting some changes in our training and methodology in regards to EP's and some standardization issues.

What I am getting at here is that there is a viable difference between the training. I have NOT heard of one Delta furlougee that has been hired that did not pass, but I am really not sure if there has been any. I do know that we have had several Eagle guys that have gone through training and have indicated that ours meets OR exceeds their system. So I would guess the same wash out rate for AA guys, but since I dont think we have had any Delta guys not pass (or very few), maybe there IS an agenda with the Eagle training department. Who knows.

If I were a betting man, I would have to guess that at lease 90% have BA/BS degrees or higher here at ASA. I know several guys with Graduate degrees (such as myself-and no it wasn't in spelling ) and a several with PHD's. Many are retired (like me) or AD, that flew/fly B1's, B52's, KC-135's, C-141's, C-17's, C-5's, F-15's, F-16's, F-111's, 47's, 60',s, 64,s, E-6's, P-3's, F-14's, F18's, 46's, 53's, V-22's, UH-1's, T-34's, C-12's, C-36's, and others that I dont know about, individuals who were getting ready to move to mainline until 911 because they met competitive min's, or ERAU type graduates. We were very particular during the hiring boom, as our wash out rate was fairly low (at least after they revamped the E-120 program-I mean fired the the Goodsman ) Anyway, we are not all wanting "something for nothing". I guess other than PFT, there is really not much difference between you and us. We just want and end to the rediculous mentality the Delta MEC has used over the past several years. I know of no one that would not except a direct staple. Of course I dont know all of the very senior guys either, so you may have a point.

 

[Freddie Spencer]

My kock is bigger than yours!!

 

[General Lee]

I like Freddie's response!

Anyways.....I think as long as you focus and actually study instead of drinking every night at Malone's---you can pass anything at this level---but you have to FOCUS.....

Bye Bye---General Lee


PS--It would have been interesting to see those two fine pilots try the old Delta 727 FE course---nothing like a 4 hour oral about old 727 systems from a retired Pan Am guy that was a PFE (Professional FE) his whole career.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Trade you the 727FE oral for being junior manned out of initial for E120 Capt! I think our bust rate got to be around 80% on the first try But if you know your memory items and systems after 5 hours at Malones, when they have the Pauliner Octoberfest - you know 'em!

General is correct, initial training is never cake. I was just point out to "Spank Me" that his selection by Delta was not justification for his bigotry. In fact, the same bigotry cost him his job and allows the decline of our profession as flying is awarded to the most "cost effective" DCI partner.

And General, it is fine with me if your pilots fly airplanes that were "ours" based on contract 96 scope, as long as they are senior to me on the list. Otherwise, who pilots the airplane will depend on how the Judge rules.

What if Northwest bought Delta, but Northwest pilots (feeling they were superior) refused to merge with you, throwing out contractual language that you felt obligated the union to merge the seniority list. The Duane Woerth decided that furloughed Northwest pilots would have rights to come over to the top of your list and fly your most desired equipment while you stagnated?

If that happened I think TK, Spank Me, and the rest of the hitler youth would be waiting in line at Michael Haber's office with the Allegheny, ASA and Comair pilots wanting a hearing with Judge Glasser.

Even you must admit, it is not equal representation when ALPA treats us 90 seat and below narrow body jet pilots like our only role is to slave away on the Plantation to support industry leading wages at bankrupt mainline carriers and to row the lifeboats over to the Titanic when it becomes obvious those mainline jobs have gone away.

~~~^~~~

And Freddie - Everyone knows it's a potato.

 

[super ed]

Tim,

Are you sure about your facts with the 2 ASA pilots that went through Delta's 737-800 program? I seem to know that a certain ASA fleet manager did pass the program. A certain hiring department Capt. at ASA did not. Not even close. First time anyway. Sounds like 50% of the ASA pilots can pass.

Ed

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

My kock is bigger than yours!!

With your avatar, I find that seriously disturbing.

 

[wms]

Yo ... dude. I will bet my furlough paycheck against your ASA paycheck that there are ASA pilots who do NOT meet Delta competitive requirements. Some differences include FEW, 1000 TT, college degree, etc. These are the MINIMUMS, not what is competitive.

When DAL bought Western did everyone at Western have degrees, and did DAL not hire them? Those are decisions that are made at paygrades other than ours. Even IF there was a staple, and even IF the degree was required to bid up, there are lots of options to complete school in the time that it would take for upward movement to begin anyway. The expense of the degree would pay for itself in a year. I don't have a degree but would gladly get it if that was the situation. The good thing is there are a lot of guys who wouldn't, which would make movement faster for others.

As for the "I'm better than you" childishness, there are lots of tough training programs at lots of airlines, and lots of good pilots from all back grounds that get through them. So we all can get over ourselves, thank you. I've never been through military flight training, or DAL. But I've flown with guys who have been through those as well as ASA E120 training, and they say they all have ups and downs.

 

[peter185]

Out of curiosity what were the backgrounds of the 2 ASA pilots that went to Delta to fly the 737. It seems to me that if they were coming to ASA after having flown mostly light aircraft their training at ASA would probably be harder than what you would get at Delta, simply because you are teaching so many systems that they are not familiar with (jet engines, pressurization, complex fuel systems, etc). At Delta on the other hand they are accustomed to having people that already have a good amount of experience with jet aircraft (military or civilian), so that part of the training is more review, and training is more specific to the aircraft. Correct me if I am wrong, I have very little experience when it comes to airline or military training.

 

[spanky2]

Bigotry? Cost me my job because I took a job with Delta vs applying to ASA? Bold talk, my friend.

OBTW...I am over qualified for your job.

Oh yeah...something for nothing. Don't wanna work for at CONAIR...but did pay assesments during their strike...did take them some cokes when they were walking at MCO.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Spanky :

You obviously had a difficult time with the reading comprehension test. You are furloughed because of the bigotry of your MEC, which you happen to represent well for everyone else to read on this board.

I'm curious what it takes to develop the skills & qualifications that you possess. So tell us:

TT:
Part 121 PIC:
Type Ratings:
Highest Education Certification / Degree achieved:
Community Involvement:

~~~^~~~

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

Come on now, quit slamming our furloughs. Leave them alone please.

And, the thing that was hard about the FE position was that you weren't flying anymore--you were a "systems expert" incharge of old systems that made you feel like Radar O'Reily on MASH----before you had to click on the Generator Breakers after starting the engine--you had to move these dials to get the lights to "blink together" in sequence--and then click the gen on. I would often say out loud, "Sparky? Sparky (Radar's friend on MASH) are you there? Colonel Potter wants some Ice Cream...."
Jumpseaters must have thought I was nuts.


Peter185,

Starting in '96 (when I got hired...) we started hiring more civilian pilots, and it has provided a good mix--rather than all military. A lot of the current furloughed pilots are actually ex-ASA and ex-Comair pilots---and only ASA will give them a chance again to fly at the bottom of their list and not give up their Delta seniority numbers. That is nice of them.


Spanky2,

The Comair guys will never see the fact that we actually did support them ( along with others at ALPA), and wanted them to win. They won't see it. They won't see that they have gained a lot more flying since 9-11, and that they now are targets because compared to their peers--they are the highest paid---just like us.
BUt, they think that they are making money (without paying for plenty of things that mainline foots the bill for--advertising etc..) and don't have to answer to anyone. Ok then.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tim47SIP]

Ed

Are you sure about your facts with the 2 ASA pilots that went through Delta's 737-800 program? I seem to know that a certain ASA fleet manager did pass the program. A certain hiring department Capt. at ASA did not. Not even close. First time anyway. Sounds like 50% of the ASA pilots can pass.


Well, I guess not. Evidently you know something that I don't concernig this Cpt. She did not indicate at all that there was a problem. I asked her how she liked it, and that was about it. I heard from others in the training department that she did great, so I cant confirm nor deny the report. She is in mngmt and is a part time Cpt on the ATR and does not fly that much. Who knows.

 

[spanky2]

~~~~~~,
So it has become personal. OK, fine. If I promise to answer your question will please stop picking on me? I am a poor furloughed pilot.

TT - more than you
Part 121 PIC - 0 / zero / zip (guess you got me here big guy)
Total PIC - more than you
Years flown - 22+
Types - more than you
Education - BS in Eng, MAS, plus military schools that you can only dream about
Community - swim coach / judge, math tutor / volunteer, fitness instructor, martial arts black belt, local Hooters hiring dept


Your new best friend...Spank Me.

I'll be happy to write a LOR for you to Plato.

 

[spanky2]

Darn...thought it would get to page 5.

 

[46Driver]

local Hooters hiring dept

You are officially my hero. I WANT your job - and I'm not talking about Delta......