DHL in talks to sell US Unit to FDX

[Box-Hauler]

Heavyjet
First of all, ABX was never geared to handle bigger shipments.

You are correct ABX air focused on the side of air cargo that made money......... express. Why compete with Kalleta to haul a box of car parts when you can make 20 bucks for an express pack that weights a few ounces.

Secondly, Airborne never did supply chain management or designed and implemented complex logistical solutions. That's a whole different ballgame.

This is correct as far as I know, but is that not DHL's ball of wax. Last I heard we were only a ACMI hired to fly from point A to B, and yes we did that better than DHL did, and no we are not going to get into the whole on-time debate here.

Thirdly there's the international aspects. ABX used to be US domestic only, now they've got to handle a large number of international import and export shipments, something they are still struggling with in the ILN hub.

Fourthly there's the whole issue of Dangerous Goods. This is a massive earner for DHL, but something ABX was, and still is, utterly inadequately equipped to handle.

ABX did and does have haz mat authorization. If I remember correctly we had to give that the the Astar guys so they could get up to speed and carry the old Airborne customers packages.

Fifth, the 3rd party operators. Oh the crying we've heard from Lufthansa Cargo over the treatment they get in ILN. Handling LH shipments is different from DHL shipments; it's a different product. ABX incapable to perform to the standards expected.

Got me there I know nothing of this, but I do know that from a pilot standpoint we treat all crew with respect and wish no ill will toward any DHL contractor, we are all in the same boat dealing with the DHL and the way they operate.

Sixth, the safety standards for your workers. I was over with a team of auditors back in 2006, 2007 and will be visiting again this year. The lead auditor made a statement, referring to the ground handling standards in ILN, along the lines of "If this was a European handling agent I would have fired them on the spot". We recorded no real improvement in 2007 and to this day we're still told by ABX that "DHL standards does not apply to us" somehow still believing they own the place. With the standards they display they shouldn't even me allowed to have an opinion.

I can only assume that ABX must meet all OSHA and DOT regulations and we must be doing that. As for audits we must be doing something right, ANA approved us and the Japs make the Germans look like slobs when it comes to operating systems and compliance.

It may be true that ABX of old made money caring small packages and docs around the US, but that's not the business we're in today.

Funny I though DHL bought ABX so they could have a presence in the U.S. by obtaining instant market share. Something they could not do by themselves in the past 20+ years. Agreed ABX was not into the international business, but DHL did not buy us for that reason. Would it have not made more sense to keep ABX working as is and "slowly" transition into the DHL network. You do know DHL does not know everything right. I mean if they bought FedEx and tried to operate it as they have been operating ABX/AStar for domestic ops then FedEx would be going down the craper also. The problem is they are trying to operate a European style in a U.S. environment. It will not work. Yes ABX management is a "issue" on some points but that does not explain why DHL was unable to "break into" the U.S. market before the purchase. Dhl's problem is a philosophical one not a ACMI one. They must change their corporate attitude to succeed in the U.S.

 

[shooter]

He is a pompous Frenchman, Box Hauler. It does no good to try and explain yourself. He has made himself quite clear that he is disrespectful of everything American. Yet if he were to listen to EU financial analysts they are extremely concerned about the American economy as it has a direct impact on their economy. Maybe he wiped his butt with to many of our dollars.

His posts have shown he is guilty of what he accuses ABX of; not trying to learn another's methods. That may be true on the sort side, I do not know but I doubt it. I can see ABX saying no if it will slow the sort or loading down, but if they fixed it maybe we would use it. But he has told us through his posts he does the same for his W&B system and safety methods. Somehow America has been thrown back to third world status when it comes to safety in the work place. OSHA is just letters of the alphabet to the frog, I mean French. Does he even know that his precious Sable has to go back to a central load center before the aircraft can be loaded? What a dope! That may work great with your 40 - 50 aircraft sort, but can you imagine not just our sort of just over 100 but FedEx and UPS waiting until the whole sort is done with all cans staged on the ramps before they can load the aircraft? And he thinks that is cutting edge technology? PLEASE!

Hey Frenchy, KILN is WiFi now. How about your state of the art link with it so you know what is coming off and going on the aircraft before it even gets touched. That is the way the "Big Boys" do it. You think you are one, maybe you should consider it. Oh wait, thats right you don't want to listen to how others do things? Even though ABX told DHL about that over 2 years ago.

 

[DC8 Express]

...It's our impression....

Hey Euroweenie who is "our"? Your posts makes you sound like you hang out with Dr. Z or do you have an office in Plantation?

Give us a name and your title. Other than that take your s&^# somewhere else. You talk out of your a*&

 

[EuroWheenie]

Box

ABX did and does have haz mat authorization. If I remember correctly we had to give that the the Astar guys so they could get up to speed and carry the old Airborne customers packages.

I'll take your word for it. All I heard was of serious issues with DGR in ILN. I am not surprised people were laying the blame at the door of ABX; it is a very easy mistake to make if that is indeed the case.

Got me there I know nothing of this, but I do know that from a pilot standpoint we treat all crew with respect and wish no ill will toward any DHL contractor, we are all in the same boat dealing with the DHL and the way they operate.

I have no reason not to belive that from the point of view of flight crews there is mutual respect. What I'm alluring to is everthing else.

Funny I though DHL bought ABX so they could have a presence in the U.S. by obtaining instant market share. Something they could not do by themselves in the past 20+ years. Agreed ABX was not into the international business, but DHL did not buy us for that reason. Would it have not made more sense to keep ABX working as is and "slowly" transition into the DHL network. You do know DHL does not know everything right. I mean if they bought FedEx and tried to operate it as they have been operating ABX/AStar for domestic ops then FedEx would be going down the craper also. The problem is they are trying to operate a European style in a U.S. environment. It will not work. Yes ABX management is a "issue" on some points but that does not explain why DHL was unable to "break into" the U.S. market before the purchase. Dhl's problem is a philosophical one not a ACMI one. They must change their corporate attitude to succeed in the U.S.

There is a lot of truth in that; the integration of Airborne into DHL was rushed, not thought thru and generally was a mess. The reason for this lies solely with the HQ staff in Bonn (i.e. DPWN). A lot of DHL staff had their misgivings about the rushed integration but were told to stuff it.

But that was then, and this is now. DHL works, more or less, in the same way all over the world. Just like UPS and FedEx. People all over the world can work with the US-derived procedures employed by FedUPS without too much of a problem (trust me, my mom used to work for UPS back home). Knowing this, how come that it's only in the US and only with former ABX management we have these issues? DHL has been working to the same procedures everywhere in the US, except ILN and at ABX controlled stations.

I'm not privy to how the CEO and his staff thinks, but it is not outside the realms of possibility they envisioned ABX embracing the DHL procedures, seeing as they really didn't have much of a choice. But wasn't, and still isn't, the case.

Perhaps part of the reason for the DHL failure in the US is the lack of cooperation from ABX management?

 

[EuroWheenie]

Shooter

I take serious offence to being called French. I shall therefore refer to you as being a Canadian. French Canadian even. And I do find it odd, that since we are obviously in disagreement, then I'm being disrespectful to "all things American". That is very strange, especially considering we haven't talked cars yet. Of American cars, yes I am very disrespectful (in so far as one can be respectful of a box of metal). Suffice to say I find that remark pretty immature - just because we don't agree doesn't mean I have no respect. Is that too complicated for you? Ever heard the saying "I may not agree with you, but I'll fight for your right to voice your opinion"? That, to me, sounds like a pretty good basis for an interesting conversation. Or perhaps you prefer talking only to people who agree with you?

Anyway, it is pretty obvious your knowledge of W&B operations is somewhat limited, and your understanding of what Sable can, and cannot, do is also somewhat flawed. While I can't explain it to you in every minute details, here is a short overview:

1) You do not need the weight of all ULDs etc to start loading.

2) Updating Sable with the central server takes seconds.

3) Sable can be used in stand-alone mode; it doesn't need to be connected to a server. After end of operation you connect the lap-top, and it synchronises with the server.

Just for your information, Sable handles roughly 600 flights a day, all from the same central server. It has been tested simulating LEJ 2012 with 100+ flights. 10 load controllers was able to produce all Load Sheets and Load Plans in time - Sable did not fall over.

ABX was offered Sable with a WiFi option, free of charge even. They still said no.

As for safety on the ramp in ILN, I can only compare it with what I've seen myself, and the only thing close to ILN standards I've experienced was in Africa, Afghanistan and Iraq. If that's approved US standards, well, good for them - but not good enough for DHL.

 

[EuroWheenie]

DC8

"Our" in the context of "us Eurowheenies on the other side of the pond", generally speaking. Anybody, really. Everybody I've ever spoken to, as a matter of fact. Anybody who's had dealings with ABX, anyone who's been to ILN. All and sundry.

Sadly, Dr. Zumwinkel seems to have misplaced my email and thus rarely consults my opinion before making a decision. I shall endavour to rectify this obvious mistake at my earliest inconvenience.

And there are 2 chances of me revealing name and title on this here board; fat and none. Same as you I suppose.

 

[shooter]

Shooter

I take serious offence to being called French. I shall therefore refer to you as being a Canadian. French Canadian even. And I do find it odd, that since we are obviously in disagreement, then I'm being disrespectful to "all things American". That is very strange, especially considering we haven't talked cars yet. Of American cars, yes I am very disrespectful (in so far as one can be respectful of a box of metal). Suffice to say I find that remark pretty immature - just because we don't agree doesn't mean I have no respect. Is that too complicated for you? Ever heard the saying "I may not agree with you, but I'll fight for your right to voice your opinion"? That, to me, sounds like a pretty good basis for an interesting conversation. Or perhaps you prefer talking only to people who agree with you?

Anyway, it is pretty obvious your knowledge of W&B operations is somewhat limited, and your understanding of what Sable can, and cannot, do is also somewhat flawed. While I can't explain it to you in every minute details, here is a short overview:

1) You do not need the weight of all ULDs etc to start loading.

2) Updating Sable with the central server takes seconds.

3) Sable can be used in stand-alone mode; it doesn't need to be connected to a server. After end of operation you connect the lap-top, and it synchronises with the server.

Just for your information, Sable handles roughly 600 flights a day, all from the same central server. It has been tested simulating LEJ 2012 with 100+ flights. 10 load controllers was able to produce all Load Sheets and Load Plans in time - Sable did not fall over.

ABX was offered Sable with a WiFi option, free of charge even. They still said no.

As for safety on the ramp in ILN, I can only compare it with what I've seen myself, and the only thing close to ILN standards I've experienced was in Africa, Afghanistan and Iraq. If that's approved US standards, well, good for them - but not good enough for DHL.

Personally, I don’t care about theSable system. It is really of no concern as it is not being used. Now, if DHL chooses to continue the US operations then the next step would be where and with what. What I do know about the Sable system is that it does not work in its current configuration when you have over 100 aircraft on a ramp for the sort. It is slow and delays loading. So if DHL chooses to continue in ILN and they decide to take over the sort, then they can tell ABX to use the Sable system and I am sure ABX will comply 100%. ABX does not fight DHL like you say they do. But if ABX is responsible for the sort and loading then they will do it in the most proficient way they can for their customer whether that is DHL or Postal Service hubs they operate. You see, ABX is very well versed in running large sort operations, something DHL has never had before here in the USA. When they are responsible for extreme departure delays by your Sable, then who will you blame? I am not saying it could not be made to operate efficiently, but it has not been proven. And you can SAY it can handle whatever, but actual results proved different. Like I said, when DHL is responsible for the sort and loading, I am sure ABX will comply. DHL did not listen when ABX told them to not handle the integration as they did and ABX was right. ABX does what DHL wants at every turn unless it is something DHL will try and hold against ABX when ABX knows it has not proven to work. All of this may not mean squat in a few months anyway. But maybe we will see when/if DHL takes the sort operation from ABX. Will you be around here then? Anyway, my issue was with your comments about our country. Maybe our dollar will be on the up and you can stop putting it down as well. How about if I say please?

 

[mxer]

Euro,
If I am not mistaken, I think you may have described a major part of the problem. When you say that DHL works the same in all parts of the world with success except in the US market, you are hitting the nail on the head. The market here is different. That is a function of the American consumer. DHL has to conform to the consumer instead of the other way around. That is why they purchased Airborne to begin with. Airborne, even with it's problems in the later years was successful in a market that DHL Airways was not. I would imagine that FedEx and UPS both understand the different consumer in the States versus other parts of the world. ABX may have its issues but the fact remains that the market share with DHL calling the shots in the US is shrinking. You have to supply what the express customers in the US desires in order to be successful in the US.

 

[EuroWheenie]

We disagree over what Sable can and cannot do. Fair enough, time will tell.

Besides, since the head boffins has told us they ain't going to sell DHL US to anybody, this thread may have run its course.

How about if I say please?

Then I'd buy you a beer! Yes, I'm in ILN around April/May. Do they still allow smoking at the Buffalo Wild Wings?

 

[EuroWheenie]

MXer

You may be absolutely right, I don't profess to know the US market very well. I only hear the bitching about ABX, and relay what I've experienced myself.

But the DPWN guys say they want to run DHL like a MickeyD; same Big Mac whereever in the world you order it. You and I may disagree, but if the owners of the trainset tell you to play with it in a certain way, it does seem counter productive insisting not to - and therein lies our issues with ABX.