Delta RFP on 10-20 widebodies maybe coming in next 2-3 years--article

[General Lee]

And there you go...


Explains why Regional pilots are flying the same sized planes that mainline used to fly. 'Throw me a few extra dollars and you can do whatever you want'.

Red,

We are picking up 88 planes that you used to fly, and putting them on routes that were flown by planes that covered for those old DC9-10s you were talking about. See, the problem is being fixed, while getting a 20% raise over 3 years too. Amazing! Nobody can just dump all feed in an instant and cover them with new mainline planes. But, dumping 140 50 seaters, adding fewer 76 seaters to replace those outgoing planes (70), and then adding 88 mainline 717s to cover for them is really making good headway towards reducing the problem of outsourcing. You can't instantly fix it, but you can make big strides, something this last contract did.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

General, can you site where in your contract it says -900's will only be deployed on old 50 seat routes?
Why couldn't mainline pilots fly those new big rj's?

Oh yeah- bc that would mean caring about that type of flying enough to wait on a raise

 

[redflyer65]

You have to admit it was a slick play by Delta management. They had the read on DALPA. They knew the Delta pilots were sabre rattling for a bigger payraise. DL crafted a deal that gave them that, and let management off the hook for the extra cost.

They were facing a several million dollar re-engine hit on the small RJs. So.....throw DALPA a small portion of that money and pocket the rest, while allowing more larger RJs under the guise of fuel economy.

It looks like RA is the master and DALPA is the puppet.

 

[General Lee]

General, can you site where in your contract it says -900's will only be deployed on old 50 seat routes?
Why couldn't mainline pilots fly those new big rj's?

Oh yeah- bc that would mean caring about that type of flying enough to wait on a raise

Why would 717s cover outgoing 50 seater routes? Do you understand the problem? These 50 seaters seemingly can't make money on most routes due to high gas prices. So, throw 70 or 76 seaters on then, lower the CASM, hunt for a profit with more seats. A 717 has what? 110 seats? Why put that on a 50 seat route? But, putting them over 76 seat routes is more logical. 140 total 50 seaters will be parked by 2015, but their routes won't just go away.

As far as who flies them, DL doesn't own all of those planes. They do own some, and there are pay rates for those same planes with over 76 seats, but 76 seats and fewer were established in BK, and that horse has left the barn. Decreasing total number of RJs is probably the best way to limit the outsourcing, and this contract has started that process. 76 seats and below have already been given to the Regionals, and even Air Canada just gave up their E175s to a local Regional (not Jazz), so their smallest plane will be the E190. Looks like that is the "new line", and we'll just have to continue to go for planes in the 100 seat range, like 717s, to try to recapture as many routes as we can. It's a start.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Noserider76]

But you're right - I do have serious issues with outsourcing.
I'm sorry you don't want to hear about how much damage it's caused

Yes, no question outsourcing has been a terrible thing for the industry. But to keep bringing it up is like bringing up the fact that SWA and its low wage low cost model killed off the extremely lucrative airline pilot career of the past. The damage has already been done and we have the industry we have now.

 

[General Lee]

You have to admit it was a slick play by Delta management. They had the read on DALPA. They knew the Delta pilots were sabre rattling for a bigger payraise. DL crafted a deal that gave them that, and let management off the hook for the extra cost.

They were facing a several million dollar re-engine hit on the small RJs. So.....throw DALPA a small portion of that money and pocket the rest, while allowing more larger RJs under the guise of fuel economy.

It looks like RA is the master and DALPA is the puppet.

Red,

The WHOLE plan was good, for everyone. Do you think there would only be a raise, and no extra mainline planes? Did you know the additional 76 seaters were tied to the 717s? No 717s, no 76 seaters. That was key. Then throw in a higher mainline ratio of flying domestically compared to DCI, a better percentage against AF/KLM for that JV, and better percentages against Alaska Air, and you start to see the picture. Guarantee to park 140 50 seaters, add 88 717s, add scope protections, and a raise---that was the deal. Not just a raise. How are you guys going to do on upcoming negotiations?



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Time will tell then GL-

Will you be more willing to eat crow if you're wrong, then when you sold that last TA after promising for years to get outsourcing under control-

Now before you get on with the same arguments- size of the outsourced airplane is more important than how many- once DALPA set precedent on -900's it knows it can get more later once that size is accepted- and then it creeps ... Ever bigger

50's were always expensive- they were used by DAL to get pilots used to the idea of regional pilots flying jets - the next step has always been to creep on up

Understand the long term strategy against us an you get why I don't give you a pass

 

[waveflyer]

Yes, no question outsourcing has been a terrible thing for the industry. But to keep bringing it up is like bringing up the fact that SWA and its low wage low cost model killed off the extremely lucrative airline pilot career of the past. The damage has already been done and we have the industry we have now.

The difference is that SWA pilots chose for themselves to work at that wage for that stock deal- believe me, I don't feel bad for those early pilots-

DALPA pilots don't have to work in the whipsaw market they created-

Hence the term sellout.

An individual's choice is a LOT different than choosing FOR other pilots

 

[General Lee]

Time will tell then GL-

Will you be more willing to eat crow if you're wrong, then when you sold that last TA after promising for years to get outsourcing under control-

Now before you get on with the same arguments- size of the outsourced airplane is more important than how many- once DALPA set precedent on -900's it knows it can get more later once that size is accepted- and then it creeps ... Ever bigger

50's were always expensive- they were used by DAL to get pilots used to the idea of regional pilots flying jets - the next step has always been to creep on up

Understand the long term strategy against us an you get why I don't give you a pass

I am not looking for your acceptance. What I am trying to point out is what has actually happened. 76 seaters for DL and NWA came during both BKs. They grew to 153 in the previous contract, which started in BK. BK isn't fun, ask the AA guys who just gave AA a bunch of E175s from Republic. So, the cat is out of the bag. Now, you have to limit them, and this last deal, tied to 88 717s and guaranteed parking of 140 50 seaters, was a good trade. It helped everyone, but really helped us. That's good. Fingers crossed for your upcoming negotiations too.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Scoot 11]

Yeah- it REALLY does. I mean who'd ever want to be me? Probably nobody on FI- they'd rather be on the Internet than out making money or a difference

But you're right - I do have serious issues with outsourcing.
I'm sorry you don't want to hear about how much damage it's caused

You're a PFT troll and *************************! You talk about how you hate outsourcing and take an outsourced job. You couldn't get hired at Delta and are pissed because the only job you could get is where you had to pay for it. Does the light hurt your eyes when you come out to the sunlight from under the rock you're hiding under?
You give all the Sputhwest pilots I know a bad name. I'm sure your boyfriend is lonely by now, so,get lost