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Delta RFP on 10-20 widebodies maybe coming in next 2-3 years--article

General Lee

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By Mary Jane Credeur
March 20, 2013 8:54 PM Bloomberg

Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) is considering buying as many as 20 wide-body jets from Airbus SAS or Boeing Co. (BA) with a list value of at least $4.3 billion, people familiar with the matter said.

The order under study is for 10 to 20 Airbus A330s or Boeing 777s, said the people, who declined to be identified because the negotiations are private. Deliveries would start within a few years, one person said. Delta already has both plane types in its fleet.

Purchasing the jets would bridge Delta’s wide-body needs until the end of the decade, when Airbus’s new A350 and Boeing’s 787-10 Dreamliner will have been in service for several years and would have any kinks worked out, one person said. Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson has said repeatedly he prefers buying established models with proven reliability.

Prices for the Airbus and Boeing jets vary according to the planes’ configurations. Airbus lists the A330 at as little as $216.1 million for the -200 model, while the 777-200ER is the cheapest in that family, at $258.8 million. Updated versions cost more, though airlines typically buy at a discount.

Delta signaled earlier this month that it might consider new twin-aisle planes, as President Ed Bastian said at a JPMorgan Chase & Co. conference that the Atlanta-based airline may find “opportunities in the marketplace selectively to add to our wide bodies.”

Bastian said Delta would talk to both Airbus and Boeing. Mary Anne Greczyn, a spokeswoman for Airbus, and Marc Birtel, a spokesman for Boeing, declined to comment on any discussions with Delta.

The 777, Chicago-based Boeing’s largest twin-engine jet, debuted in 1995, a year after the A330. The 777-200ER and A330-200 seat about 270 and 240 people, respectively, and are typically used on long-haul routes. Delta also has held talks with Boeing and Toulouse, France- based Airbus about buying $1 billion or more of new single-aisle jets as the planemakers wind down production of those planes in favor of upgraded versions, people familiar with that matter said in January.

That purchase would involve Airbus A320s or Boeing 737s before those planes’ successors –- the A320neo and 737 Max –- arrive later this decade, the people said.Anderson also has opted for used planes in recent years as the replacements for some of his oldest jets, forgoing the fuel efficiency of newer models while saving money on the purchase price.
Delta became the biggest operator of Boeing’s out-of- production 717 under a May 2012 sublease agreement with Southwest Airlines Co. to take 88 of those single-aisle planes. A month earlier, Delta said it bought seven Boeing MD-90s from Japan Airlines Co.

Delta had 717 jets in its main fleet as of December, 158 of them wide-bodies. Of those, 80 percent are made by Boeing.


To contact the reporter on this story: Mary Jane Credeur in Atlanta



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General Lee

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GogglesPisano

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My prediction: 777-300's to (eventually) replace 747's. We just installed new interiors on the whales so I'm guessing we want at least 5 years out of that investment.
 

General Lee

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My prediction: 777-300's to (eventually) replace 747's. We just installed new interiors on the whales so I'm guessing we want at least 5 years out of that investment.

From Ed Bastian in the article "may find “opportunities in the marketplace selectively to add to our wide bodies” , so I would think it would be EXTRA planes to bridge the time when DL gets 20 or more 787s (after 2020) and maybe some A350s. I think they want more planes to do overflight of NRT possibly, towards cities in China, etc. Just a guess.


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General Lee

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OOOOOOOPS, scratch that.....




Delta sees no need for new widebody order: Bastian





Delta Airlines has no need to begin long-term widebody fleet replacement "any time soon", says its president Ed Bastian.

Speaking to journalists at a press conference in London, he described reports that the airline is studying a purchase of further Airbus A330s and Boeing 777s as "interesting", but said he did not see such an order as "necessary in the near future".

He says Delta's policy of "updating and modernising" its aircraft means it has the youngest widebody fleet among the major US carriers, with an average age of 12 years, and as such it has no "additional needs".
"We made a decision several years ago that we were not going to be growing that widebody fleet," he adds, noting that the airline recently invested around $1 billion on refurbishing its aircraft interiors.

Delta's only unfulfilled widebody order is for 18 Boeing 787-8s plus 50 options. With deliveries scheduled from 2020 onwards, Bastian says this is far enough in the future for the SkyTeam carrier not to have to consider altering its plans.






Oh well, there you have it....


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General Lee

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All that fapping for nothing.

I just posted two articles, and you are still an idiot. Good show!


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nimtz

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Hey General I'll let you in on a little secret. Nobody likes that guy who lives to speculate on 'rumors of new order.' Far too many times my analysis of the USA Today has gotten interrupted by the speeches that start with 'just got back from the school house AND' or 'read an article the other day about possible...' Guess what sane people only give two turds when the ink goes to paper.
 

Flyer1015

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Delta RFP on 10-20 widebodies maybe coming in next 2-3 years--article



They're gonna need a lot more than 10-20 to replace the widebodies retiring due to age 65. :D
 

248to2.8

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Delta RFP on 10-20 widebodies maybe coming in next 2-3 years--article



They're gonna need a lot more than 10-20 to replace the widebodies retiring due to age 65. :D

Does that article refer to new flight attendant hiring? ;)
 

General Lee

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Hey General I'll let you in on a little secret. Nobody likes that guy who lives to speculate on 'rumors of new order.' Far too many times my analysis of the USA Today has gotten interrupted by the speeches that start with 'just got back from the school house AND' or 'read an article the other day about possible...' Guess what sane people only give two turds when the ink goes to paper.

Hey man, I just posted the original article, and then when I saw the other one disputing the first one, I posted it. I didn't hide anything. Some people may want to know about "possible" orders that could increase hiring someday.


And look what today's (March 21st) Seeking Alpha stated:

Bulletin from today's "Seeking Alpha":

Thursday, March 21, 4:31 AM Boeing and Airbus are reportedly vying for orders from Delta that could be worth up to $6B at list prices. The airline is interested in acquiring 10-20 wide-body Boeing 777 jets or A330 planes for $4.3B, and a similar number of smaller 737s or A320s.


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General Lee

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I thought delta was smart and only purchased used planes

DL has 100 NEW 737-900ERs coming at around 3 per month starting later this year, replacing older 757s, A320s, and a small number of domestic 767-300s. When they get close to the cycle limit, it is SMART to replace them. There have been other reports that DL may be looking for an additional 30-40 new narrowbodies that aren't NEO or MAX versions, as long as the manufacturers also take some old 50 seat RJs as a part of any deal.


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waveflyer

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Delta pilots are SELLOUTS- keep preaching that widebody line though

Chase that carrot pilots- it's all about the widebodies-

Heard Skywest is creating a bid for the CRJ 1000 to replace those inefficient -700's

I think I'd rather work for Skywest- hotter FAs and less corny pilots who at least seem to know how to have fun- and hell, give it time and delta's going to give them the domestic op anyway-

(Haven't dug on the arrogant double breasters in a while- so you know- no matter how good the delta job gets- no airline has done more damage to the airline pilot industry than Delta's continual lead in outsourcing-

How are those -900's coming along?
 

General Lee

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Delta pilots are SELLOUTS- keep preaching that widebody line though

Chase that carrot pilots- it's all about the widebodies-

Heard Skywest is creating a bid for the CRJ 1000 to replace those inefficient -700's

I think I'd rather work for Skywest- hotter FAs and less corny pilots who at least seem to know how to have fun- and hell, give it time and delta's going to give them the domestic op anyway-

(Haven't dug on the arrogant double breasters in a while- so you know- no matter how good the delta job gets- no airline has done more damage to the airline pilot industry than Delta's continual lead in outsourcing-

How are those -900's coming along?

You mean the 737-900's (ERs)? They are on the way at the end of this year. As far as sellouts, I think you really didn't understand the new contract. There were 70 new 76 seaters allowed, only if DL got YOUR 717s, and a huge amount of 50 seaters were dumped for their inefficiencies. Some on here say the 50 seaters were going anyway due to an AD coming out or those planes were getting high on cycles themselves. Over 300 of the 50 seaters had lease through 2015, which is a fact. Most of them are leased, and if you owned the leases and knew that thy were coming up on too many cycles, you'd probably keep them on leases until the end. Instead, Bombardier was looking to increase their CR9 production, and the only way DL would do that is if they could take back 3 or so 50 seaters for one new CR9. That could only be done via the DL pilot contract. So, take 717s for a steal of a price, add a limited amount of CR9s and have the regionals fight over those to lower DCI costs, park 50 seaters that can't make money during high oil costs, and use the 717s where current 76 seaters fly, pushing those 76 and 70 seaters down to cover outgoing 50 seaters, using extra seats in those markets to try to make profits. It actually was a great plan that came together. DL pilots make an almost 20% pay raise in only 3 years, add more mainline Capt seats(717s) at great rates, get rid if over 140 total RJs that weren't profitable anyway, and even tightened INTL scope and domestic, while increasing the % of domestic flying for mainline vs DCI.

So Wave, where is the extra outsourcing? Read above, and then respond. Don't worry, you are already wrong.



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redflyer65

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General,

You're delusional if you think letting Regional 'partners' fly a plane as big as a DC-9 is a good thing. Those where the jobs that NW/DL used to do!

Anderson just dialed up the heat a little bit on the scope limits and Delta pilots like you are saying 'the added heat feels good, I can't really tell the difference anyway. Where's my larger check?'

Your right about the less 50 seaters, the better. But Delta really was up against the wall with those planes needing re-engined. Anderson came up with this deal (along with Bombardier's help) to save literally hundreds of millions of dollars, and you gave him a pass for a higher payrate. You sold out the larger RJ for more pay.....again. That's the point that Wave is making, and he's right.

You can talk about less 50 seaters until your blue in the face, but you STILL allowed RJ drivers to fly your DC-9 sized passengers for a payraise. Period.

Next time, Anderson will get the 100 seat level of RJ he wants. He's proven he knows how to play you guys.....like a Stradivarius.

He won, easily.

And you let him.
 

BILL LUMBERG

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So now we care what Wave and Red think about our new planes?

You mean the same guys flying the heavy -800 to San Juan acting like they just launched service to another continent in a widebody?

GL, Don't fall for these two fools flamebait.....they are just mad the Delta interview didn't go as planned.
 

General Lee

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So now we care what Wave and Red think about our new planes?

You mean the same guys flying the heavy -800 to San Juan acting like they just launched service to another continent in a widebody?

GL, Don't fall for these two fools flamebait.....they are just mad the Delta interview didn't go as planned.

Don't worry Bill, I enjoy debating Wave and Red. They try to make their points, but can't see the problems in their own backyard. DL has outsourced a lot, but the recent contract did address some of these issues, and they don't want to acknowledge that. That's ok, Wave and Red are probably good guys any of us would have drinks with.

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General Lee

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General,

You're delusional if you think letting Regional 'partners' fly a plane as big as a DC-9 is a good thing. Those where the jobs that NW/DL used to do!

Anderson just dialed up the heat a little bit on the scope limits and Delta pilots like you are saying 'the added heat feels good, I can't really tell the difference anyway. Where's my larger check?'

Your right about the less 50 seaters, the better. But Delta really was up against the wall with those planes needing re-engined. Anderson came up with this deal (along with Bombardier's help) to save literally hundreds of millions of dollars, and you gave him a pass for a higher payrate. You sold out the larger RJ for more pay.....again. That's the point that Wave is making, and he's right.

You can talk about less 50 seaters until your blue in the face, but you STILL allowed RJ drivers to fly your DC-9 sized passengers for a payraise. Period.

Next time, Anderson will get the 100 seat level of RJ he wants. He's proven he knows how to play you guys.....like a Stradivarius.

He won, easily.

And you let him.

Red,

Your airline and my airline have bad issues in the past. The RJ problem did start with mine, but progressed faster during a BK. If you haven't been through one, it sucks, and I hope you never have to. Anyway, the last contract did address scope issues and pay issues, now that DL is seriously kicking tail. There were issues about RJ MX, but they could have been pushed off until 2015 or later, and that would have meant NOT taking your 717s in the BEST DEAL EVER. Face it, SWA paying $137 million to DL to use their planes against them, and then getting the right to purchase them after the leases at then value was pure genius. Then, parking inefficient RJs and having 70 new 76 seaters fill in for departing 50 seaters, while making DCI fight for them, was great too. Throw in a 20% raise over 3 years, and many things were accomplished. Throw in tighter INTL scope, and more of the "pie" for domestic flying and codeshare with AK, and the outsourcing problem was addressed. Maybe not totally fixed, but on the way. It's hard to fix it all at once. You will see that in your next negotiations.


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