Delta RFP awarded....

[jayme]

As far as losing flying goes, that's life. However, SkyWest has long-term contracts in force. Delta's was affirmed in bankruptcy court, so I don't think they can get out of it now, unlike how they put Comair's flying up for bid. United is not in bankruptcy, so the contract is valid.

So any increase in our pay comes out of SkyWest Inc's profit. Does that bother you? I wish management was as motivated to please us as your are to please them.

 

[QCappy]

Don't forget Horizon...$20+ a flight hour more at my seniority, higher per diem than us for domestic flying and even more than that for international, and a higher match on their 401K! Yet their company makes much less than Skywest!!!!

Per deim is the same for both domestic and international at Horizon. And you cannot compare what SkyWest makes to what Horizon makes. Two completely different business models.

 

[Palerider957]

He who came before you should keep his job. His job should not be subject to the lowest bid. Why dont you just put pilot jobs on Ebay.

My friend, Karl Marx is dead and wrong.

 

[PCL_128]

My friend, Karl Marx is dead and wrong.

So now someone is a communist simply because they think it's wrong to bid out someone's job to the lowest bidder? Whatever happened to ethics? Capitalism and ethics/morality should not be mutually exclusive. Airline management seems to believe that they are. Unfortunately, it seems that you do too.

 

[Auburn_CFI]

So now someone is a communist simply because they think it's wrong to bid out someone's job to the lowest bidder? Whatever happened to ethics? quote]

I agree with you PCL. That said, you mean it's like someone paying to be a 121 FO? Lowest bidder? Like you did at Gulfstream? I read this forum and you are always blabbing, but your are the worst of all, a hypocrite. Please realize that no one takes you as a credible source even if the content of your opinion is correct.

 

[Heavy Set]

So now someone is a communist simply because they think it's wrong to bid out someone's job to the lowest bidder? Whatever happened to ethics? quote]

I agree with you PCL. That said, you mean it's like someone paying to be a 121 FO? Lowest bidder? Like you did at Gulfstream? I read this forum and you are always blabbing, but your are the worst of all, a hypocrite. Please realize that no one takes you as a credible source even if the content of your opinion is correct.

I think PCL brings up plenty of good points. Sure, he may have made the mistake of paying for some training, but Southwest guys do that today. Do you slam them too? It got him to where he is today, and he passed all of the checkrides along the way. You sound like a spoiled brat who is jealous.

 

[Palerider957]

So now someone is a communist simply because they think it's wrong to bid out someone's job to the lowest bidder? Whatever happened to ethics? quote]

I agree with you PCL. That said, you mean it's like someone paying to be a 121 FO? Lowest bidder? Like you did at Gulfstream? I read this forum and you are always blabbing, but your are the worst of all, a hypocrite. Please realize that no one takes you as a credible source even if the content of your opinion is correct.

Jesus....so SKYW pilots should refuse to fly these aircraft? Should we all be down on SKYW because they are not ALPA? Everyone should pound on the SKYW pilot group because they seem to be relatively happy and prosperous?

Management is not the cause of low pilot wages, pilots willing to fly for low wages is the cause. You may call it blaming the victim, I call it the most basic economics........this is why I left the airlines.

Your salvation is NOT in ALPA, or name calling, or scope clauses....your salvation is in the mirror, and in the mirror of the pilot sitting next to you.

 

[Palerider957]

So now someone is a communist simply because they think it's wrong to bid out someone's job to the lowest bidder? Whatever happened to ethics? Capitalism and ethics/morality should not be mutually exclusive. Airline management seems to believe that they are. Unfortunately, it seems that you do too.

Incidentally, why woudln't managment bid pilot jobs out to the lowest bidder? It's not like airline pilots are in short supply, nor are they especially skilled.

I got fed up with the low pay, lack of cohesion among the pilot group, and slow pace of negotiations. I don't only blame managment for this, the pilot group never applied significant pressure to make things happen. So why NOT put these jobs on ebay........answer your own question.

 

[PCL_128]

Jesus....so SKYW pilots should refuse to fly these aircraft? Should we all be down on SKYW because they are not ALPA? Everyone should pound on the SKYW pilot group because they seem to be relatively happy and prosperous?

Not at all. I'm not "down" on any pilots (except for GoJet). I think we should be working with the Skywest pilots to get them into ALPA. That's exactly what we're doing.

Your salvation is NOT in ALPA, or name calling, or scope clauses....your salvation is in the mirror, and in the mirror of the pilot sitting next to you.

You are contradicting yourself. ALPA is the pilot in the mirror and the pilot sitting next to you. ALPA is not some nebulous organization up in Herndon that pilots should just expect to solve the world's problems. ALPA is me and you and every other member pilot.

 

[PCL_128]

So why NOT put these jobs on ebay........answer your own question.

Ethics and morality. Smart and ethical management rewards the very people that helped build the company into what it is today. Short-sighted and unethical management outsources the jobs of the people that built the company and puts them out on the street. Southwest understands the idea of rewarding the people that built the company. As a result, SWA has been wildly successful. Companies that have treated their employees as line items on a balance sheet have been stupendous failures constantly in and out of bankruptcy.

 

[Auburn_CFI]

I think PCL brings up plenty of good points. Sure, he may have made the mistake of paying for some training, but Southwest guys do that today. Do you slam them too? It got him to where he is today, and he passed all of the checkrides along the way. You sound like a spoiled brat who is jealous.

Actually SWA will hire without a type. I personally know of several people who were hired without. Yes, they were required to get it before they could begin training but at that point it becomes different. I do believe it is a poor practice but obviously you are getting a multi-million dollar career in return. At Gulfstream, TAB Exp. (now defunct), etc. you are only getting 250 hrs. and then maybe they will pay you the slave wages to work for them. You are comparing apples to oranges. I did not intend to sound like a spoiled brat, only someone who can't take a hypocrite who claims to be a pilot advocate seriously while they bash others even when they them-self paid to be a 121 pilot. Keep in mind this is the first time I have mentioned this in over 2 years of seeing his posts. Also, keep in mind that I agree with him on nearly every single one of his points. It is just a shame that he made a mistake and tarnished a good reputation by his actions. I am not saying he is a scab, but many scabs feel like they made a mistake to, should we ignore what they did?

 

[wheelsup]

Sure, he may have made the mistake of paying for some training, but Southwest guys do that today. Do you slam them too?

Contract pilots pay for their types. Do they PFT? No. SWA isn't a PFT operator. The check those pilots write to get their type doesn't go into the SWA coffers. In addition, once on property SWA pays their new hire pilots and puts them thru their own indoc/systems/sim etc. SWA and Gulfstream are two, totally different things.

 

[Auburn_CFI]

Great point Wheelsup. I think you may have ended the SWA response to the Gulfstream complaint once and for all.

 

[Quack]

any of you guys know how long the contracts are in place for skywaste at Delta and UA?

 

[airtime42]

All that needs to be known is that the Skywest pilot group does nothing good for the industry. Except put viable pilot groups out of work.. ACA, Air Wiskey, ASA, and Comair.

 

[homerjdispatch]

any of you guys know how long the contracts are in place for skywaste at Delta and UA?

You mean SkyWest, right?

I could tell you for SkyWest but I dont know the other company.

 

[jayme]

All that needs to be known is that the Skywest pilot group does nothing good for the industry. Except put viable pilot groups out of work.. ACA, Air Wiskey, ASA, and Comair.

OK Everybody! You never have to look at this site again! You now know all that needs to be known! Thank you airtime!

 

[joe_pilot]

All that needs to be known is that the Skywest pilot group does nothing good for the industry. Except put viable pilot groups out of work.. ACA, Air Wiskey, ASA, and Comair.

any of you guys know how long the contracts are in place for skywaste at Delta and UA?

Wow. You guys should probably file a lawsuit naming the entire SkyWest pilot group as the root cause of all your problems. I think the Lawyer who handled the McDonald's hot coffee case is available.

Don't like your job? SkyWest pilots' fault. Have a bad case of acne? SkyWest did it. Your kid doesn't look like you. A SkyWest pilot definitely did it!

You don't have to agree with us for not having ALPA on property (yet). You don't have to like our (for the most part) young, attractive FA's. You don't have to like the fact that there was a belief that management would take care of us if we agreed to fly larger a/c at a single rate. I won't try and convince anyone to like me or my pilot group, but man, how about a little reality?

The big bear that killed our dream job is the American Consumer. Ask a steel plant worker, an auto worker or a television factory worker. We all want it cheaper, don't we? How many people who bash MESA, SkyWest or Republic drive a Japanese car? Does a UAW member then have a right to call you a scab? Think about it.

Look, I know a lot of this will fall on deaf ears and that's ok. I just know that I enjoy my job, good beer and hope to god the Eagles can somehow make it to the Super Bowl. If ANY pilot from ANY pilot group is ever in SaltLake, you're welcome to grab a beer from the fridge. If you don't like that, you can just kiss my big, white @ss.

Fly Safe.

-JP

 

[PCL_128]

Wow. You guys should probably file a lawsuit naming the entire SkyWest pilot group as the root cause of all your problems. I think the Lawyer who handled the McDonald's hot coffee case is available.

Don't like your job? SkyWest pilots' fault. Have a bad case of acne? SkyWest did it. Your kid doesn't look like you. A SkyWest pilot definitely did it!

Wait, I'm confused. Judging by the posts on this message board, I thought Duane Woerth was responsible for all the things wrong with the world. Poverty? That's Duane's fault. AIDS in Africa? Yep, that's Duane too. The Cold War? That was Duane's fault also. How can both Skywest and Duane both be the cause of all the world's problems.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Wait, I'm confused. Judging by the posts on this message board, I thought Duane Woerth was responsible for all the things wrong with the world. Poverty? That's Duane's fault. AIDS in Africa? Yep, that's Duane too. The Cold War? That was Duane's fault also. How can both Skywest and Duane both be the cause of all the world's problems.

There is no way Duane can be responsible for hot FA's at SkyWest or, your kid looking like a SkyWest pilot!

 

[thebest]

All that needs to be known is that the Skywest pilot group does nothing good for the industry. Except put viable pilot groups out of work.. ACA, Air Wiskey, ASA, and Comair.

WOW, another person that is "in touch" with reality! Hmmmm, aren't they all alpa?

 

[Palerider957]

You are contradicting yourself. ALPA is the pilot in the mirror and the pilot sitting next to you. ALPA is not some nebulous organization up in Herndon that pilots should just expect to solve the world's problems. ALPA is me and you and every other member pilot.

I agree that ALPA should be you and me, but it really isn't. Without going into a whole ALPA diatride, we all know there are many competing intersts within ALPA.

I don't think it's a cotradiction to say that diffuse and competing interest make for easy prey. Regional pilots are easy prey. Again, this is why I left the industry.

 

[1013dot25hPa]

You know how it should work? Just like every other figgin union in the country. For example, my wife is a heavy equipment operating engineer. When her union goes on strike, other local chapters will NEVER and NEVER HAVE taken on the jobs of the union on strike.

Also other chapters never cross into anothers territory because they can do the work cheaper.

I ask again as I did in another thread, why is it that pilots that belong to the same union think it is OK to screw fellow union members that happen to work for a different company out of a job?

My answer to the Skywest guy that asks what he should do is, support your fellow pilot collegues by NOT flying CMR routes! Pilots should act and show support in the same way that every other friggin union does!

 

[homerjdispatch]

My answer to the Skywest guy that asks what he should do is, support your fellow pilot collegues by NOT flying CMR routes! Pilots should act and show support in the same way that every other friggin union does!

SkyWest pilots honored the Comair strike and did not fly comair routes during the strike.

 

[1013dot25hPa]

Thank you. But what about after a strike. Flying that once belonged to one carrier and is now awarded to another because they can do it cheaper. You shouldn't touch that flying either.

 

[airtime42]

I would like to see what the SkyWest guys would say if someone came in and undercut them?

They say we should not talk crap about them because "they believe in their mgmt" and "their mgmt will take care of them if they fly every jet in the world for a single rate"

They need to pop that bubble that is Skywest and return to the real world.

In the industry there for sure is no love for a skywest puke.

 

[SkyWstman]

Deleted.

 

[ohplease!]

SkyWest pilots honored the Comair strike and did not fly comair routes during the strike.

....and during the Comair strike, how much DAL flying was being done by Skywest , especially where it came near anything Comair did?

 

[ohplease!]

I would like to see what the SkyWest guys would say if someone came in and undercut them?
.

probably the same thing many of our folks say about them or Chattaqua or Freedom...or the same thing some Comair folks are saying about ASA right now.

 

[PCL_128]

Thank you. But what about after a strike. Flying that once belonged to one carrier and is now awarded to another because they can do it cheaper. You shouldn't touch that flying either.

We have to abide by the law. Unfortunately, the law does not allow us to refuse flying unless it is struck work. Once a strike is over or a company being struck has liquidated, then that flying is no longer struck work, and no one has the legal ability to refuse it.