Delta ready to void pilots contract.

[Noserider76]

I do know a lot of the other employees, and they would rather be on a life raft with management than on a kamikazee plane with the pilots.

In my opinion it would be in the best interest of the other employees to support the pilots. In addition to trying to preserve a reasonable pay scale we are trying to keep as much of our flying as possible on mainline.

Management wants the ability to outsource much more of our flying and along with that flying will go many more flight attendant, gate and ramp agent, and mechanic jobs. Look around at how many jobs have already been lost to outsourcing.

Why are you spring loaded to support a management group that has made so many gross errors in just the last 6 years:

-- 2.5 Billion stock buyback --- now worthless
-- 1.8 billion for Comair
-- 1 Billion for ASA
-- 600 million invested in AeroPeru
-- Fuel hedges sold for 87 million dollars
-- Management retirement debacle
-- Billions spent on inefficient small aircraft for other companies to fly
-- Drastically cutting back flying after 911 allowing competitors to
aggressively expand in our backyard
-- Countless others (add your own here)

Don't forget, WE, the employees, are the company---management is the hired help.

 

[miles otoole]

In my opinion it would be in the best interest of the other employees to support the pilots. In addition to trying to preserve a reasonable pay scale we are trying to keep as much of our flying as possible on mainline.

Management wants the ability to outsource much more of our flying and along with that flying will go many more flight attendant, gate and ramp agent, and mechanic jobs. Look around at how many jobs have already been lost to outsourcing.

Why are you spring loaded to support a management group that has made so many gross errors in just the last 6 years:

-- 2.5 Billion stock buyback --- now worthless
-- 1.8 billion for Comair
-- 1 Billion for ASA
-- 600 million invested in AeroPeru
-- Fuel hedges sold for 87 million dollars
-- Management retirement debacle
-- Billions spent on inefficient small aircraft for other companies to fly
-- Drastically cutting back flying after 911 allowing competitors to
aggressively expand in our backyard
-- Countless others (add your own here)

Don't forget, WE, the employees, are the company---management is the hired help.

You forgot-Giving the pilots a contract they couldn't afford.

 

[General Lee]

You forgot-Giving the pilots a contract they couldn't afford.

At the time we could afford it. Leo Mullin sat there and signed the contract himself.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

Your comments show a complete and utter lack of any sort of respect, class or any sort of even basic regard for the 60,000 other Delta employees who count on this company for a paycheck to feed their families.

Hmm, and your kamikazee remark showed a lot of basic regard toward the pilot group.

I actually have great regard for the vast majority of Delta employees. As a group, I think we have great people working for Delta. But no, I have no regard for fools like you.

The decision on whether or not the pilots strike is totally in the hands of management. If you don't want to loose your paycheck, I suggest you lean on them. We will not roll over. Personally I am willing to give the company what they need. I will not give them what they want. There is a big difference there.

 

[MedFlyer]

At the time we could afford it. Leo Mullin sat there and signed the contract himself.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Leo only signed it because he was afraid of a strike. He knew DL couldn't afford it.

Personally I am willing to give the company what they need. I will not give them what they want. There is a big difference there.

The question is how do YOU know what the company needs? Judging by DL's dismal 3rd qtr numbers, they aren't even close to getting what they need.

 

[michael707767]

The question is how do YOU know what the company needs? Judging by DL's dismal 3rd qtr numbers, they aren't even close to getting what they need.

hmm, first of all, at the company road show in CVG, Jim Whitehurst told the pilots that by 2007 Delta would be "wildly profitable". Second, in negotiations with ALPA, the company has already come off its public 325 million position. Not much, but they have come off it. Now, if thats the number they truly need, why would they come off it at all? Why would they not go to the judge and have that exact amount imposed?

Bottom line for me is this though. I think another 10% pay cut from the pilots is fair. It represents the bottom of what I feel is just compensation for professional pilots. If Delta needs more than that to survive, then I say shut it down. A company that can't be profitable paying fair wages doesn't deserve to be in business, IMHO.

 

[General Lee]

Leo only signed it because he was afraid of a strike. He knew DL couldn't afford it.



The question is how do YOU know what the company needs? Judging by DL's dismal 3rd qtr numbers, they aren't even close to getting what they need.

That's not what he said at "Incommand" at the time. He said he expected that we would ask for a lot, because people with self respect ask for what they think they are worth. He said he would have asked for the same thing. (he then took $16 million as he left) HE SAID THAT. But, you think otherwise and know otherwise. You really have no clue about what happened during the Leo Mullin time period.


And, Micheal707 is correct, we must not be doing that bad if we will be "wildly profitable" in 2007. I think most of this last quarter's loss was due to paying for extra fuel costs, mainly on RJs that could not pull in enough money to cover the higher costs. Thank gawd SkyWest is "insulated" from higher fuel costs (a la Ron Reber--CFO), and that probably goes the same for you guys, although we actually still own you for the time being.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MedFlyer]

He said he expected that we would ask for a lot, because people with self respect ask for what they think they are worth.

So what? That doesn't mean that DL could afford the raises. If you can do even basic math, you'd see that there was no way DL could have afforded these raises...unless airfares went skyrocketing up (which wasn't going to happen).

And, Micheal707 is correct, we must not be doing that bad if we will be "wildly profitable" in 2007.
Bye Bye--General Lee

The caveat to that "wild profitability" is assuming that DL gets all the cuts it needs. So far, it isn't happening. DALPA isn't anywhere near the cuts management wants. And from what I've heard, attempts to renegotiate DL's debt and aircraft leases are not going well.

Not to mention that DL's management has routined predicted profitability. In 2003, they predicted that 2005 would be a profitable year after all projected cuts were in place. You see how that worked out.

 

[cmrflyer]

It all boils down to the fact that managment are unable to do there job.
They sign contracts they cannot fulfil. They buy airlines thay have no idea how to use. They give flying away to other airlines because they can. They pay other airlines to do the same flying that they already have there own airlines doing, who then give that money to USAirways. They contract the lowest of the low, and then decrease there own airlines flying because it seems like a good idea?
As i said before, we work for a bunch of morons that would be more than happy to see a 777 captain make $45000 a year.
We must fight these people, (as has been said earlier in this thread) and shut this place down if we have to. I will not lower myself to what they think i should be able to survive on!

 

[800Dog]

It all boils down to the fact that managment are unable to do there job.
They sign contracts they cannot fulfil. They buy airlines thay have no idea how to use. They give flying away to other airlines because they can. They pay other airlines to do the same flying that they already have there own airlines doing, who then give that money to USAirways. They contract the lowest of the low, and then decrease there own airlines flying because it seems like a good idea?
As i said before, we work for a bunch of morons that would be more than happy to see a 777 captain make $45000 a year.
We must fight these people, (as has been said earlier in this thread) and shut this place down if we have to. I will not lower myself to what they think i should be able to survive on!

You make too much sense! Now listen up to the wannabe, low time, airline folks posting on this matter. They know best.

 

[michael707767]

And from what I've heard, attempts to renegotiate DL's debt and aircraft leases are not going well.

.

don't know about the debt, but the renegotiation on aircraft leases is going very well.

 

[michael707767]

The caveat to that "wild profitability" is assuming that DL gets all the cuts it needs. .

so if DALPA only gives say 150 mil a year instead of 325 mil a year, Delta would be just short of wildly profitable, and just have solid profits. I can live with that.

 

[satpak77]

Wildly profitable?

I doubt that DAL will be "wildly profitable" in 2007, which is for all practical matters, one year away.

According to this article, DAL just reported a 1.13 BILLION dollar loss.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051111/delta.html?.v=2

I don't even think DAL could be at all profitable by 2007, much less "wildly" like Whitehurst claims. But he is a Harvard MBA, so he is much smarter than I am. (Jeff Skilling of Enron was another smart Harvard MBA)

time will tell, but I wouldn't go around high-fiving each other and having parties to celebrate the yet-to-be-seen wildly profitable 2007, just because Whitehurst said so.

One thing at a time. Right now Delta is bankrupt and bleeding. While oil may "go down" it is still high (he11 is hot but it went down 100 degrees, that don't make it cold). I doubt oil will ever be sub-$50 again, ever.

 

[anon]

Yes, even with First Officers that he had flown with objecting to his reinstatement at the MEC meeting!

A month later Duane Woerth was photographed having cake and ice cream with Continental Scabs as he welcomed them back into ALPA without a penny of back dues.

To his credit, the former Lorenzo pilot at ASA has done a good job as Chairman of the Security Committee. I haven't flown with him because I swore I would never, ever, do it again after one leg. (The Company should look at my sick bank before they ever schedule us together) None the less, I believe in redemption and see his work as evidence that he has found his way.

Sorry.

He's still a scab. Like you, I'll never fly with him.

 

[~~~^~~~]

At the time we could afford it. Leo Mullin sat there and signed the contract himself.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Well that Harvard trained putz described it as a "new cost paradigm" that American, Northwest, Continental and United would subsequently exceed. Unfortunately Leo's "case study" (since he had nearly ZERO real world experience at running an airline) failed to work out. He was the Lone Ranger. The next deal was American's and it established pay rates at half (or less) of Delta's rates for narrow body equipment.

Then, Delta Management. continued to arrogantly brag that costs did not matter. The strength of the Delta network meant that their costs could be 25% higher than their competition & their strong cash position (bolstered with a lot of credit) woudl see them through. (I could not believe my ears). The pilots ate this crap, believed that they were uniquely qualified to be Delta pilots and somehow Delta was immune to economic reality.

This is the first real Delta pay cut that will be fully felt, since the rapid seniority progression that buffered the last blow has played out. It is uglier now. Delta will probably void the contract. The union will beat its chest, but they know striking would take the airline out.

There is a proposal on the table for the Delta MEC to buy back RJ flying for sub Comair and ASA rates. Delta might be buying it, or strongly considering it. ASA new hire training went from 40 a month to zero very recently as a direct result of direction (or lack of direction) from their neighbors three blocks east on Virginia Avenue. Also enclosed in ALPA's proposal is a reduction in furloughee benefits if Delta will drop its request to put 79 seaters at DCI.

Of course ALPA is not bothering to tell us about this, we have to get it from Court documents.

~~~^~~~