Delta ready to void pilots contract.

Dizel8

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Huh?
Of course, this is only a formality, negotiations still have to take place.


"Union: Delta ready to void pilots' pact
By James Pilcher
Enquirer staff writer

Delta Air Lines plans to ask a bankruptcy judge to reject its contract with its pilots union within the next few days, the carrier’s branch of the Air Line Pilots Association told its members today.

The news came less than two weeks after the airline’s lone major unionized work group voluntarily entered into talks over the $325 million in annual concessions Delta was seeking as it restructures under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

If the judge sides with the company and rejects the contract, that could mean that management could impose its own work rules and pay temporarily. If a final version is not agreed to eventually, the pilots could walk out, although a union at an airline under bankruptcy protection has never tested that situation".

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051101/BIZ01/311010006
 
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check6

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What judge would side with the company? That's the question of the day.
 

bafanguy

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check6 said:
What judge would side with the company? That's the question of the day.

The answer to the question of the day:

Judge Prudence Carter Beatty

Stay tuned...
 

Spooky 1

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This is a no brainer. The DAL pilots, both working and retired are toast!
 

snow-back

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bafanguy said:
The answer to the question of the day:

Judge Prudence Carter Beatty

Stay tuned...
I agree. The trend has definitely been to rule in favor of whatever the company asks for. This seems to have been the case in most recent airline bankruptcies.

I know there's a lot of talk and bravado, but how low will it have to go until a pilot group decides to withdraw its services. I know, I know, a strike may not be legal, but at this point, I think everyone knows what the outcome of a pilot strike would be. Legal or not, the outcome will probably be the same.
 

AMRCostUnit

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snow-back said:
I agree. The trend has definitely been to rule in favor of whatever the company asks for. This seems to have been the case in most recent airline bankruptcies.

I know there's a lot of talk and bravado, but how low will it have to go until a pilot group decides to withdraw its services. I know, I know, a strike may not be legal, but at this point, I think everyone knows what the outcome of a pilot strike would be. Legal or not, the outcome will probably be the same.
The loudest most frightening sound to GE Capitial and any other creditors is the sound of a silent jet engine. If there was a creditible threat of hundreds of parked airliners around the country and the world they would go after someone elses cheese. They are betting that will not happen and so far they are winning. I mean, the price of jets on the market would plumment and just where are they going to find the repo pilots to go get the jets from where they are parked?

Yes. it wouldn't be pretty. Judges, lawyers, media, passengers all whinning about it but we'd have to stand fast. Eventually they'd come to us or wouldn't let it happen in the first place. We have to put it all on the line in order to stop the slide.

Unit
Ready
 

bafanguy

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snow-back said:
I agree. The trend has definitely been to rule in favor of whatever the company asks for. This seems to have been the case in most recent airline bankruptcies.

I know there's a lot of talk and bravado, but how low will it have to go until a pilot group decides to withdraw its services. I know, I know, a strike may not be legal, but at this point, I think everyone knows what the outcome of a pilot strike would be. Legal or not, the outcome will probably be the same.
If that big email I got yesterday containing the sentiments of the active pilots is any indication of the prevailing sentiment, they'll burn the place to the ground.

I'm sure Judge Beatty is equally adept at overseeing a CH7 filing...and will have sooooo many witty comments to add about pilots too.
 

Spooky 1

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Where did you get that email from? PM with the link, please.
 

Guitar Guy

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Enough
"Justice, Inc.", sponsored in part by General Electric - "Bringing good things to life!"

So DL management is ready and willing to cut pilot salaries and benefits. What about management's own salaries and benies? Oh that's right, "we" HAVE to pay those princely sums in order to attract and retain such talent.:smash:

My sincerest best wishes to the employees at DL.
 

737 Pylt

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Spooky 1 said:
This is a no brainer. The DAL pilots, both working and retired are toast!
Sad but true!
737
 

sstearns2

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Dizel8 said:
If a final version is not agreed to eventually, the pilots could walk out, although a union at an airline under bankruptcy protection has never tested that situation".
Didn't CAL strike during bankruptsy back in the Lorenzo days?

Scott
 

FDJ2

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sstearns2 said:
Didn't CAL strike during bankruptsy back in the Lorenzo days?

Scott
Yes they did, as a matter of fact there has never been a successful challenge to the legality of an airline strike when a contract was rejected. The bankruptcy laws have changed since Lorenzo brought CAL and EAL into BK and summarily rejected their CBAs. The new Section 1113 of the Bankruptcy code was intended by Congress to protect workers from an arbitrary rejection. To date no airline has had a judge "reject" their CBAs through the 1113 procedure, most parties not willing to swim in those murky waters, but NWA or DAL might just be the first.

Furthermore, it is not exactly clear what "rejection" entails, but that's another subject.

In 2003 at an American Bar Association meeting the issue of whether a strike is legal after an 1113 rejection was studied, after a 47 page discussion their conclusion was:

E. Conclusion: The Right to Strike Preserved

When it enacted Section 1113, Congress relieved employers of their Section 6 responsibilities – it provided employers with a shortcut to unilateral implementation. While nothing explicit was directed towards the right to strike, it seems almost absurd to suggest that Congress intended to (1) relieve employers of their responsibilities under an otherwise valid collective bargaining agreement, (2) permit debtors to unilaterally implement terms of employment without first adhering to Section 2(First) and Section 6, while at the same time (3) compelling employees to accept the employer’s proposals and (4) prohibiting the peaceful exercise of their right to strike without resorting to the RLA procedures they were denied in the first place.


BREDHOFF & KAISER, P.L.L.C.
Jeffrey R. Freund
Roger Pollak
Phil Hostak
Demian S. Ahn
 
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Spooky 1

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I think Delta could keep the airline running, even with a strike. Might fail in the long run, but they might fail anyway.
 

800Dog

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Spooky 1 said:
I think Delta could keep the airline running, even with a strike. Might fail in the long run, but they might fail anyway.
Care to elaborate?
 

stagger

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Judge Prudence is not your friend

Judge Prudence has already said that pilots make a lot of money for flying an airplane. And the courts seem to favor the corporations over the employees when it comes to airline bankrupcy .Goodluck to Delta and it's feeders.
 

FDJ2

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stagger said:
Judge Prudence has already said that pilots make a lot of money for flying an airplane. And the courts seem to favor the corporations over the employees when it comes to airline bankrupcy .Goodluck to Delta and it's feeders.
I don't think any of us a DAL have any illussions about what Judge Prudence thinks about us "boss man" pilots, as she has referred to us as, and which way she tends to rule. That is why we are spinning up our Strike Preparedness Committee (SPC) and Lee Moak couldn't have picked a better man then Mike Donatelli to run it. There is a great deal that can be done through the SPC on a run up to a strike that tends to put pressure on management.
 

Spooky 1

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800Dog said:
Care to elaborate?

Well here goes. First of all this is the opinion of a sick mind combined with a little flame bait for good measure. First Delta sets up an organization like DSS (Delta Staffing Services) and rehires all the eligable early outs that want to comeback and fly. Since the existing cadre of pilots could give a Fuk about these guys and their pensions there will be no hesitation from some to return to the line. Next they profer flying to those on furlough from Delta and next those from other airlines who have the necessary experience. Then they use Comair, ASA and Skywest to fill in the cracks. This would barley keep the airline going, but it would probably play hell with the strikers.

Take a look at how many guys crossed or were hired off the street at CAL and EAL for starters. These folks are out there and with the industry and in the state it is in, you will find them crawling out of the cracks for these jobs.
Don't shoot the messenger here. Just beware that this is a real possibility. All the chest pounding and threats will not overcome the potential greed that is out there. Will the airline survice, probably not, but this is a real ughly way to see it end.
 

Rotorhead1

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Skywest will someday own Delta

In the not so distant future when Delta has just about rolled over and died Skywest will move in and buy Delta for just about nothing. Then Skywest will have all those new overseas routes. The Delta pilots will get stapled on to the bottom of the seniority list and you will have 50 year old Ex-Delta Capt now FO's with a 30 year old Skywest Capt.
 

800Dog

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Spooky 1 said:
Well here goes. First of all this is the opinion of a sick mind combined with a little flame bait for good measure. First Delta sets up an organization like DSS (Delta Staffing Services) and rehires all the eligable early outs that want to comeback and fly. Since the existing cadre of pilots could give a Fuk about these guys and their pensions there will be no hesitation from some to return to the line. Next they profer flying to those on furlough from Delta and next those from other airlines who have the necessary experience. Then they use Comair, ASA and Skywest to fill in the cracks. This would barley keep the airline going, but it would probably play hell with the strikers.

Take a look at how many guys crossed or were hired off the street at CAL and EAL for starters. These folks are out there and with the industry and in the state it is in, you will find them crawling out of the cracks for these jobs.
Don't shoot the messenger here. Just beware that this is a real possibility. All the chest pounding and threats will not overcome the potential greed that is out there. Will the airline survice, probably not, but this is a real ughly way to see it end.

And monkeys will fly out of my butt! I do appreciate the post though. I think Delta would liquidate fairly quickly but, that is just one man's opinion.
 

FreightNazi

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Rotorhead1 said:
In the not so distant future when Delta has just about rolled over and died Skywest will move in and buy Delta for just about nothing. Then Skywest will have all those new overseas routes. The Delta pilots will get stapled on to the bottom of the seniority list and you will have 50 year old Ex-Delta Capt now FO's with a 30 year old Skywest Capt.


AHHHHHH, the wetdream of every commuter pilot.
 
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